Alternatives to mines

[burgingham]

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Not enough? Just pm members of the bigger factions. Bottleneck is sure willing to give away metal for non-metal goods for example.

[Pansy]

yeah, everyone I have talked with only wants other metal types to trade, that's why I really like this idea, get misc metals and if needed can trade to big mines.

I can see where you get this impression. Basically there are a lot of small mining settlements out there that are not trading at all and are keeping a low profile. I know of at least one miner who has iron he can do nothing with who is crying out for low q clay to make bricks and for ordinary farming produce. But he's not about to post that he has an iron mine with no brick wall around it. If he wants to trade he has to disclose his location. He'd happily swap you scythes and sausage grinders and chest metal for q30 grapes. Or carrots. How can he find you? He's as stumped as you are. He's not a solo player either.

I heartily support the idea of being able to find iron and other metal nuggets as rare items. it's been suggested often before. I don't think the devs have ever said that the idea is impossible, but there is a good chance they want to keep metal hard to get, in order to encourage wars over the mines.

[Avu]

If he'd get a sign to Constantinople like all the smart people he wouldn't need to fear disclosing his location now would he?

[Sarge]

I don't think the problem is with metal not being available to all even in alternatives. I believe the problem lies in that there is hardly anything that anyone can offer big villages with metal that is genuinely attractive enough to justify making the effort. Metal is basically the only resource that is not easily accessable to all.

Again, I would like to refer to more strict regionality.

[Lothaudus]

Caves should be mines on their own, people being able to mine into cave walls with a pick and a miner's helm (or Pacho's Client). Either make the cave walls dissapear or simply make it like fishing with lures, once in a while, you get some type of ore. It could also be like clay, you can dig about 2-3 inventories of ores until it is depleted and needs to build up again (not in quality, but in quantity), which would need like 3-5 days to come back. As clay, some spots on the walls wouldn't give anything, ore deposits would need to be found in order to be minable.

^ This. Even if you could add coloured seams that you follow, so if you dig everywhere inside a cave, you get nothing but rocks and dirt but if you follow the seam, you get ore.

I like having different chances of ore, that your "Iron Mine" might produce Tin every once in a while or if you're really lucky a spec of gold, rather than just all Iron (adds to the frustration process / makes it more difficult and interesting).

Now, being able to use this to tunnel underground and out into somewhere else... Like across the river or underneath someone's walls...

Normal "hole in the ground mines" should then be replaced with similar cave-like setups.

And we should be able to walk with carts in caves. Crawling is such a pain. It's actually quicker to crawl in with a boat and 2 chests, port out and repeat then it is to crawl in with the cart, load up 4 chests and crawl out again (the boat method gives you extra ore, given you get not only 4 chests but 2 loads of inventory).

I don't think the problem is with metal not being available to all even in alternatives. I believe the problem lies in that there is hardly anything that anyone can offer big villages with metal that is genuinely attractive enough to justify making the effort. Metal is basically the only resource that is not easily accessable to all.

Again, I would like to refer to more strict regionality.

Also this.

But trading is an issue as it is difficult to even get to Constantinople when you don't know where you are. If rivers crossed super-grids, I think a lot of issues would be resolved simply because people could boat and plonk down runestones to mark their way.

[Cookie]

If he'd get a sign to Constantinople like all the smart people he wouldn't need to fear disclosing his location now would he?

You really think that would work?

It's a hell of a distance, certainly too much to do in one jump, and quite possibly requires three or even four. You're probably assuming he's part of a town, and that he wants to be part of a town network. Town networks have so far worked out nicely for Bottleneck, but perhaps not so much so for Ravenholm. Getting to be part of a town network requires you to either know a lot of people (bang goes the anonymity) or to associate with people who freely hand out signs without asking for guarantees from the people they hand them out to.

Setting up Constantinople for a trading hub is a great idea, but I'm thinking it doesn't do much for the small traders who don't live in a self-sufficient city.

[Avu]

No offense but if you can't help yourself nobody can. People that can't get metal or some other stuff to trade don't want it bad enough. If you're too good, lazy, stupid, casual (insert any other adjective) to be part of a town why expect special treatment?

[Quasic]

yeah, everyone I have talked with only wants other metal types to trade, that's why I really like this idea, get misc metals and if needed can trade to big mines.

You are just talking to the wrong people. I have been in many trades where good metals were on one side of table and other quality goods, nonmetallic, on the other side. You just need things people want -- i recommend cured buds, silk, cave bulbs.

[Potjeh]

We in Buyan have bought over 5k wall-grade bricks, for like 1 metal bar to a chest. If you can't make effin' bricks, you're just plain lazy.

[sabinati]

things most people will trade metal for:

any q silk, higher q being a bit more valuable
milk, possibly wool, higher q being a bit more valuable
cavebulbs, chantrelles, blueberries, possibly clovers or inkweed, q10 is the standard but higher q is slightly more valuable
any q bricks, linen, in bulk
high q water, soil, clay
high q tree seeds

a few other things some people might trade metal for:
high q chickens or cocks
pirozhkis, rings of brogdar
brill, roach, eel, sturgeon, plaice
cheese
high q linen, farm hats, chef hats
high q leather, possibly low q leather in bulk

a few other things that might also be of value in trades:
tea (prepared tea, not leaves)
honey
cured hemp buds
cured tobacco
tobacco seeds or peapods or any other newly added plant (at least until everyone already has them)

am i missing anything?