New Siege Implementation: Siege Claims

[Kirche]

what is it that the two of you have against allowing people to upgrade palisades to brickwalls?

[Dakkan]

Kinda dumb you guys are doing this right now, and potentially screwing over a lot of village designs that have been built.

There's rarely a good time.

W12 when?

[Ysh]

It seem to me one odd consequence of these changings is that sieging is not tied to any particular personal/village claim nor siege object. For example:

Forgive crude image. Brown box is palisade, red box is siege claim. Maroon X is siege machine generating claim. Green box shows village claim being sieged, blue box shows personal claim attacker builds as forward base. In this case, attacker sieging enemy base is also building up authority for defender to attack his forward base. Similarly, if defender tries to counterattack this forward base, he will build up authority for the siege claim which is threatening him. Does this not prevent counterattacking? To root out forward base is to root out your own base as well.

Generally, it seem impossible to attack any thing which is claimed within 49 tile of your wall, because as soon as you will gain maximum authority, these men can come and break your wall too.

Do I miss some interaction here?

Other similar consequence to this, it seem that a man can create a dummy claim 100 tiles away from target claim. He will build siege machine and gain maximum authority on this claim, then build second dummy claim 50 tile in between first dummy and target. Attacking second dummy claim will create half full siege claim which touches target claim. From here, he can siege target in effectively half the time.

[Ozzy123]

Last world palisades and brickwalls required exactly the same amount of time to be sieged tho, right now if brickwalls are gonna take more then yeah palisades are kinda nerfed, or more like brickwalls are just buffed, which makes them mandatory for protection.

Are you arguing that we cannot ever add better walls?

Well you guys can do whatever you want, it's your game after all heh. Not saying it's happening now but adding something mandatory for every single village/player in middle of the world just doesn't seem like a right thing to do, with that attitude im afraid that you guys will for example add some new credo when everyone will be at 100 quest/level and that credo will be 100% mandatory for everyone to live, like idk +50% food efficiency or +100% cleave damage or something like that. Of course, you can add that but is that good for anyone? I don't think so.

[Omnipotent]

Palisades would not be worse than they were last world, though. There is no nerf on palisades.

By implementing this change you are buffing BWalls, which in turn, is a nerf on palisades. We've all already built our bases using palisades as there was previously negative benefit in a brick wall (it was the same end result but for more time and energy).

The problem is not last world, it's this world. If you have ANYTHING you want to preserve, you have them behind your walls. But this changes the strength of every pre-existing wall.

If this were the beginning of the world, it would be easy for me to just build my base from the ground up with brick walls. But being that this is 150-160 days into the world, 99% of us already have our bases established. There is no way to improve our palisades without personally bashing them down ourselves, which leaves us open to being raided. So currently, in order to upgrade your walls to help protect yourself from getting raided, you have to raid yourself while hoping nobody else raids you too. It's a catch 22 that doesn't really make any sense.

If we were able to upgrade pre-existing walls however, we could simply upgrade our palisades into brick walls. And then there would be no problem for people who already built their palisades. Even if the pali to brick wall upgrade was only available for a few days it would be better than nothing.

Disagree with that, fam. You can build a new wall around your base.

False.

Take for example a village that has settled on an island. They were ambitious and already extended their walls to the maximum possible borders available. They want the best defense for themselves, and they build palisades all around it to defend their base. This change gets implemented and they decide they would like to upgrade to brick walls. But in order to build brick walls, they have to either destroy the already existing walls, or build another wall inside of that wall which will still probably need to get bashed in some places.

[bmjclark]

Kinda dumb you guys are doing this right now, and potentially screwing over a lot of village designs that have been built.

There's rarely a good time.

W11 was a great time, you know, before everyone built towns that they may have to just move out of if they want to actually be properly safe under this new system. Honestly, if you give people the ability to upgrade to brickwalls this really isn't even that big of an issue.

[shubla]

I think probably people will be worried here until they see numbers.

The reason we haven't posted them is simply that we haven't actually decided on them yet, so feel free to opine. Here are some options off the top of my head:

• Palisade: 18 hours; Brickwall: 24 hours
• Palisade: 24 hours; Brickwall: 32 hours

24 real life hours is the minimum.
Some people don't play the game 24/7. Being able to destroy somebodys walls in less than 24 hours is too harsh.

I agree that some village designs are ruined.
Some villages have literally been built on places, according to the siege mechanics in beginning of the world.

[jorb]

It seem to me one odd consequence of these changings is that sieging is not tied to any particular personal/village claim nor siege object. For example:

Forgive crude image. Brown box is palisade, red box is siege claim. Maroon X is siege machine generating claim. Green box shows village claim being sieged, blue box shows personal claim attacker builds as forward base. In this case, attacker sieging enemy base is also building up authority for defender to attack his forward base. Similarly, if defender tries to counterattack this forward base, he will build up authority for the siege claim which is threatening him. Does this not prevent counterattacking? To root out forward base is to root out your own base as well.

Generally, it seem impossible to attack any thing which is claimed within 49 tile of your wall, because as soon as you will gain maximum authority, these men can come and break your wall too.

Do I miss some interaction here?

Other similar consequence to this, it seem that a man can create a dummy claim 100 tiles away from target claim. He will build siege machine and gain maximum authority on this claim, then build second dummy claim 50 tile in between first dummy and target. Attacking second dummy claim will create half full siege claim which touches target claim. From here, he can siege target in effectively half the time.

That latter part he could presumably be warned about. Your first scenario was stronger. Considering.

[loftar]

Other similar consequence to this, it seem that a man can create a dummy claim 100 tiles away from target claim. He will build siege machine and gain maximum authority on this claim, then build second dummy claim 50 tile in between first dummy and target. Attacking second dummy claim will create half full siege claim which touches target claim. From here, he can siege target in effectively half the time.

The point about that would be that you are warned more than one expansion away, so you still have the same (or more, if you discover it on your own) time to prepare for and counter it.

[Omnipotent]

Kinda dumb you guys are doing this right now, and potentially screwing over a lot of village designs that have been built.

There's rarely a good time.

A good time would be on world restart. You know, before people already have walls built?