Game Development: Stalking Garden

[CSPAN]

And they've let the NEETs dictate an update. Darn. Better luck next time.

[loftar]

And they've let the NEETs dictate an update. Darn. Better luck next time.

As we know by know, changes that aren't power-creep can only be made at resets.

[Morrighan]

What does NEETs mean?

[Zentetsuken]

And they've let the NEETs dictate an update. Darn. Better luck next time.

As we know by know, changes that aren't power-creep can only be made at resets.

Just make the bigboy changes on the test server once you get it up and running so the whiners can stay safe and happy.

[Aceb]

And they've let the NEETs dictate an update. Darn. Better luck next time.

As we know by know, changes that aren't power-creep can only be made at resets.

Even while changes were restored in that regard, I still didn't see any explanation or way of thinking why such changes were made in first place, making me glad that You did restore but also making me being very uneasy that it still looks like the toilet bowl was just closed and shit is still there.

Ok, so, after careful consideration -- we went back and forth quite a bit -- we have decided to hold off on the gardening changes until a more opportune moment.

What was that back and forth? You give us only general talking without any clue what's going on between You two or something.

[...] but there were also some good arguments made against the change, perhaps chiefly that the quality of foraged goods is a bigger problem. All in all, we'll hold off, and do things more gradually and gracefully. Mechanically I think the changes were net positive [...]

Which make me think that You reverted changes just because many people rioted but actual questions weren't answered. You still feel You did right but somehow people rioting make You think to revert it but nothing has changed between us. You stand were You standed, we stand where we standed. Some people achieved to bring a question mark in your heads but, I still think someone is here deep in forest and there should be answers so next questions and answers bringing us all somewhere could be achieved. Just for the sake of transparency and avoiding such trantrums, explain, tell us, throw some answers, instead of straight ahead "u mad sprucecap" next time.

[loleznub]

There are a few tantrum posts in this thread that I really dislike

People wouldn't need to throw "tantrums" if you guys didnt do dumb stuff like this in the first place. This is the second time in what a month?

If you really see some posts as "tantrums" there is a larger underlying problem of an inability to understand what's wrong with the changes in the first place. When you don't put the time to play your own game, you fail to understand just how big of a punch to the dick this stuff is, especially when people put weeks to months into getting these credos for the benefits, only to replace them with useless (and arguably much easier to complete) rewards. If you went to school for 4 years and graduated, only to be told that your degree was then condensed into a 1 year certificate and people with that newer certificate would be more desirable, of course, you'd be upset. It's the same concept.

It's your game so you are clearly free to make whatever changes you want, but you need to understand why people are bitching at half-assed changes. In the end though, if you just see "tantrums" then I guess we should just get used to 2 updates per month, with 1 of those being reverted from here on out.

[MagicManICT]

Even while changes were restored in that regard, I still didn't see any explanation or way of thinking why such changes were made in first place, making me glad that You did restore but also making me being very uneasy that it still looks like the toilet bowl was just closed and shit is still there.

You've been around long enough, and I'll admit I've not a clue what your history is with "on again, off again 'Haven,'" but if you've been around most, if not all of that time, you should know this isn't the first time the wrong call was made for the given time. (This may be a "right call," but just horrible timing six months into a world.)

@jorb: might I suggest one or two changes to gardening at a time, ask players for a 2-4 week period of "adapting" to said changes, and find out, through opinion and game data, if people have successfully adapted, or if it really was a terrible idea. Yeah, the salty tears will still flow in some cases, even if it's the right call. (Getting rid of bluebells is the right call... anyone with enough INT don't care, and anyone that doesn't have enough INT should probably work on doing better if they really want "top LP/hour.")

edit: And if anyone can't post an honest opinion after that 2-4 week period without raging, just toss the opinion in the trash because they clearly can't think, or at least express themselves, in a rational manner that would convince someone that the change is right or wrong. (In other words, people around here need to take a fucking chill pill and calm their shit down. it's a game. nobody killed your baby.)

[Aceb]

You've been around long enough, and I'll admit I've not a clue what your history is with "on again, off again 'Haven,'" but if you've been around most, if not all of that time, you should know this isn't the first time the wrong call was made for the given time. (This may be a "right call," but just horrible timing six months into a world.)

It's that I have a way different vibe and feelings now than I had with combat changes or any past fails that were reverted.

Don't get me wrong, when they failed with combat rework I was glad they tried, failed, reverted, probably got a lesson from that next time will be hopefully a lot better.

But here... It just feels way different.

[MagicManICT]

It's that I have a way different vibe and feelings now than I had with combat changes or any past fails that were reverted.

Don't get me wrong, when they failed with combat rework I was glad they tried, failed, reverted, probably got a lesson from that next time will be hopefully a lot better.

Combat is hard in any game. The only thing I'd say is harder in a game is economic factors. I don't know how old you are, or if you ever played Magic (specifically in the early years), but Wizards of the Coast were pretty open about the "design economy" of Magic. They stuck to it really well for the first year or two... but it still created a shit ton of broken cards that got nerfed, restricted, and even banned from tournament play. (I remember one or two cards that they constantly changed the ruling on.) It's hard to say when implementing something what's going to be OP and what's going to be utter crap. There's just too many interactions, both intended and unintended, to predict such things. When something is found to be OP, it's gotta be nerfed, and the sooner, the better. The longer it's allowed to remain in the game, the worse it is when the bandage gets ripped off. This thread is proof of that.

[tyrtix]

tbh, i don't think at all it's such a terrible update, but there are many things that were overlooked, in my opinion, and the update as a whole was treated like: "if you don't like it, you just want fanservice and no real update", wich sounds again like "we don't care about the opinion of the (very small) playerbase we have", and i think i pointed out at this thing maybe at least 3-4 years ago :p

It feels to me that is obvious that players are not happy if you just remove an advantage from them, and then gives them back nothing, it's even worse if these changes makes a part of the game virtually worthless for them. I think that if this change was followed by some better minded, new gardening products, and a real change for foraging, both by ADDING contents to the game, the playerbase would have complained a lot less.