Food & Level Scaling Rework

[Oddity]

Why still insistence on a root based formula? x * stat / (stat + z) would be much better.

what does each of these variables represent?

[Zentetsuken]

It there has to be a bonus for being a nolifer then I so much prefer this than having a titan. Because that means 5 smart casuals can still balance out a nolifer with 5 fighters.

Exactly. Also, it means that once you hit this plateau you can just make a new character instead of running out of steam, and as soon as you have 2 characters at this plateau, all of a sudden a whole bunch of options open up. Players who would normally call some big boys over to help with a troll or snail might be more inclined to just try it out themselves. People might show up to meteors, come out of their gates and defend themselves, and just not be afraid to engage in PVP.

Right now when people have a good character they are afraid to bring it outside because a high stat character is something to lose. Under the plateau'd or capped system a high level character is the exact opposite. You can make 2 and you are immediately rewarded with a "nothing to lose" scenario.

[Potjeh]

Why still insistence on a root based formula? x * stat / (stat + z) would be much better.

what does each of these variables represent?

X is mass stat effect, z is basically speed of approach. Let's take HP for example. If X is 1000 then max theoretical HP is 1000. But you can never actually get there, you're only approaching it in ever smaller increments as you increase your Con. How you approach it depends on z. If z is 10, you have 500HP at 10 Con, 909HP at 100 Con and 990HP at 1000 Con. If z is 100, you have 91HP at 10 Con, 500HP at 100 Con and 909HP at 1000 Con. If z is 1000, you have 10HP at 10 Con, 91HP at 100 Con and 500HP at 1000 Con. Basically you can never actually have 1000HP, but as your Con approaches infinity you approach 1000HP, and the pace of approach is determined by z. The idea is to make early gains fairly fast and tryharding always gives you an advantage, but never an insurmountable one, so you can have good enough stats to beat a titan in a fight even you have a life outside the game, as long as you manage to actually outplay him in combat.

[Archiplex]

Why still insistence on a root based formula? x * stat / (stat + z) would be much better.

what does each of these variables represent?

X is mass stat effect, z is basically speed of approach. Let's take HP for example. If X is 1000 then max theoretical HP is 1000. But you can never actually get there, you're only approaching it in ever smaller increments as you increase your Con. How you approach it depends on z. If z is 10, you have 500HP at 10 Con, 909HP at 100 Con and 990HP at 1000 Con. If z is 100, you have 91HP at 10 Con, 500HP at 100 Con and 909HP at 1000 Con. If z is 1000, you have 10HP at 10 Con, 91HP at 100 Con and 500HP at 1000 Con. Basically you can never actually have 1000HP, but as your Con approaches infinity you approach 1000HP, and the pace of approach is determined by z. The idea is to make early gains fairly fast and tryharding always gives you an advantage, but never an insurmountable one, so you can have good enough stats to beat a titan in a fight even you have a life outside the game, as long as you manage to actually outplay him in combat.

I don't see a way of introducing this sort of math that is in any way balanced either for lategaming climbing or early game climbing, and the 4th root system works FAR better.

Your proposed system A. shafts early game math (and numbers) extremely hard or B. frontloads the early game stats while having lategame stat climbing become so insignificant it isn't worth it.

Yes, diminished returns is good. Frontloading is not. if z*10 grants you 90.9% of the stat you can possibly gain, then there is no purpose in going any further, as the maximum 'theoretical' limit is known (unlike now, where the 'maximum' is more 'how high can we reasonably pump our QL"), you can just simply stop at the point where effective returns aren't going to happen.

I probably don't really need to comment on why shafting early game stats is a bad idea too, unless you seriously think 10 con giving 10 hp is a good idea.

Stick with the roots system; the rest of the system's math is based around it, and even if it isn't perfect, we can work off of it. This weird other math system has even bigger issues.

[Potjeh]

You could just have a baseline value to not shaft early stats, ie x * (y + stat / (stat + z)). Shafting late game stats is a must, just look at the results of JordanColes' poll. Grind effectiveness has to be reigned in to have any hope for player retenion and people joining mid-world.

[Granger]

It there has to be a bonus for being a nolifer then I so much prefer this than having a titan. Because that means 5 smart casuals can still balance out a nolifer with 5 fighters.

Exactly. Also, it means that once you hit this plateau you can just make a new character instead of running out of steam, and as soon as you have 2 characters at this plateau, all of a sudden a whole bunch of options open up. Players who would normally call some big boys over to help with a troll or snail might be more inclined to just try it out themselves. People might show up to meteors, come out of their gates and defend themselves, and just not be afraid to engage in PVP.

Right now when people have a good character they are afraid to bring it outside because a high stat character is something to lose. Under the plateau'd or capped system a high level character is the exact opposite. You can make 2 and you are immediately rewarded with a "nothing to lose" scenario.

The ability to mass-produce and hibernate quite good enough characters might bring unpleasant side effects.

[Potjeh]

Still better than titans. You can only effectively pilot one character at a time.

[Archiplex]

You could just have a baseline value to not shaft early stats, ie x * (y + stat / (stat + z)). Shafting late game stats is a must, just look at the results of JordanColes' poll. Grind effectiveness has to be reigned in to have any hope for player retenion and people joining mid-world.

But then that results in a large period of stat growth where the stat does absolutely nothing. It's an inelegant solution that I just don't see the need to use THAT formula with.

I do agree about grind effectiveness needing to be reigned in; but the 4th root system does just that.

[Zentetsuken]

Still better than titans. You can only effectively pilot one character at a time.

This.

If somebody wants to go full autist and make 100 characters that's on them. I can't really imagine any immediate negative side effects. A village that babysits titans can generally have a dead one ready to get back out and fight within a few days I think, so there's not a huge difference maybe.

Also, this can easily be limited by putting a hard and low limit to the amount of characters per account. If we could only make say 5 characters per account then at the very least it would limit some of the hibernating armies, OR it would get more people subbing multiple accounts which sounds like a good thing.

[pppp]

But then that results in a large period of stat growth where the stat does absolutely nothing.

Yes. That's the whole point of choosing function with asymptotic maximum. You just can't grind beyond certain number, or more precisely, no matter how far you grind, the result will be mostly the same. That is to make unlimited grinding pointless, so people stop grinding and then complaining about grind. Infinite stat grind is the top reason to quit. Find yourself different activity in game once you hit the point where grind is pointless.

It's an inelegant solution that I just don't see the need to use THAT formula with.

I do agree about grind effectiveness needing to be reigned in; but the 4th root system does just that.

Ad nauseam, the problem with reducing efficiency of grind to non-zero is it forces people to grind more to compensate for lost efficiency. Problem with 4th root is it still allows infinite stats, if only the person could eat right foods in right moments, preferably using bot for best optimization.