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stides
- Posts: 1
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Java is painful
Are there plans to bring the game to a more current technology?
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Fostik
- Posts: 2521
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:08 pm
- Location: EU
Re: Java is painful
Java is very current technology, there is nothing wrong with engine choice.
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My experience of market building in W13
My experience of market building in W13
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MagicManICT
- Posts: 18435
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Re: Java is painful
If you have an issue with Java, maybe you could elaborate more? There's no more issues with Java than with many of the other game design APIs used today. Windows just likes to make a fuss about anything that isn't directly tied to Microsoft's pocketbooks, and Apple seems to hate Java with a passion at a level only scorned women would know.
Opinions expressed in this statement are the authors alone and in no way reflect on the game development values of the actual developers.
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shubla
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Re: Java is painful
There are many things wrong with java.Fostik wrote:Java is very current technology, there is nothing wrong with engine choice.
Performance is not as good as alternatives, also I think that loftar doesn't like java, also the reason why java was used in first place no longer exists (1 click launch jnlp) also there are some quite stupid things that oracle has done recently with licensing and other things...
Devs should have coded the client from scratch when they started rendering rewrite, but I think that they are deep in sunk cost fallacy now, too late to turn back.

I'm not sure that I have a strong argument against sketch colors - Jorb, November 2019
http://i.imgur.com/CRrirds.png?1
Join the moderated unofficial discord for the game! https://discord.gg/2TAbGj2
Purus Pasta, The Best Client
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loftar
- Posts: 9096
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Re: Java is painful
I don't think that's quite true. With the new launcher, there is now a 1-click launch Jar instead of JNLP, which arguably just works better than JNLP ever did. There are also other reasons for using Java, most importantly the ability to dynamically load code in a platform-independent manner. I'm not even sure how I'd replicate that on other platforms with less than either including a full copy of LLVM with the client or pre-compiling all dynamic code for all possible combinations of hardware and operating system that it might run on.shubla wrote:also the reason why java was used in first place no longer exists (1 click launch jnlp) also there are some quite stupid things that oracle has done recently with licensing and other things...
Devs should have coded the client from scratch when they started rendering rewrite, but I think that they are deep in sunk cost fallacy now, too late to turn back.
"Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing." -- Rob Pike
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MagicManICT
- Posts: 18435
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Re: Java is painful
There really isn't. Ideally, .Net is supposed to work in this way. In practice it doesn't (that I'm aware of, at least).loftar wrote:I'm not even sure how I'd replicate that on other platforms with less than either including a full copy of LLVM with the client or pre-compiling all dynamic code for all possible combinations of hardware and operating system that it might run on.
You need to dig up the performance reports. Loftar posted them at one point on the forums some years ago.shubla wrote:Performance is not as good as alternatives
Opinions expressed in this statement are the authors alone and in no way reflect on the game development values of the actual developers.
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DPblH
- Posts: 432
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Re: Java is painful
This is just sounds like "Java is good because I coded so". While there is no problem for whole world to download updates, you decided to use ugliest and unsafe way.loftar wrote:There are also other reasons for using Java, most importantly the ability to dynamically load code in a platform-independent manner.
Give a man a game engine and he delivers a game. Teach a man how to make a game engine and he never delivers anything.
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Granger
- Posts: 9255
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:00 pm
Re: Java is painful
http://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/g ... -resourcesloftar wrote:There are also other reasons for using Java, most importantly the ability to dynamically load code in a platform-independent manner. I'm not even sure how I'd replicate that on other platforms with less than either including a full copy of LLVM with the client or pre-compiling all dynamic code for all possible combinations of hardware and operating system that it might run on.
Mobile platforms: iOS, Android
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Who needs Java?
⁎ Mon Mar 22, 2010 ✝ Thu Jan 23, 2020
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shubla
- Posts: 13041
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- Location: Finland
Re: Java is painful
I guess that the launcher is faster on windows if it knows which program to open it with so its one click. (On linux I use command line so its not that fast or easy)
But one could argue that same can be achieved with C++, or then one could have launcher in Java which then downloads the game in c++.
There are many multi-platform games that don't seem to have any issues. Dynamically loading code? If you mean your res file system, one should not have used it in the first place.
If somebody says that java game is as fast (or faster!) than C and C++ he is wrong.
Though I somewhat agree that HnH should not use some ready-made game engine, at least with smaller game engines (like the one that swampmonster linked) there is a chance that they just stop maintaining it or something...
But one could argue that same can be achieved with C++, or then one could have launcher in Java which then downloads the game in c++.
There are many multi-platform games that don't seem to have any issues. Dynamically loading code? If you mean your res file system, one should not have used it in the first place.
I only found some discussion about C# and java differences.magicman wrote:You need to dig up the performance reports. Loftar posted them at one point on the forums some years ago.
If somebody says that java game is as fast (or faster!) than C and C++ he is wrong.
Though I somewhat agree that HnH should not use some ready-made game engine, at least with smaller game engines (like the one that swampmonster linked) there is a chance that they just stop maintaining it or something...

I'm not sure that I have a strong argument against sketch colors - Jorb, November 2019
http://i.imgur.com/CRrirds.png?1
Join the moderated unofficial discord for the game! https://discord.gg/2TAbGj2
Purus Pasta, The Best Client
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Granger
- Posts: 9255
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:00 pm
Re: Java is painful
I argue Godot engine is better, because he'll have both the full source and the right to use it as he sees fit - with Java he has neither and oracle seems to be busy killing it.shubla wrote:Though I somewhat agree that HnH should not use some ready-made game engine, at least with smaller game engines (like the one that swampmonster linked) there is a chance that they just stop maintaining it or something...
⁎ Mon Mar 22, 2010 ✝ Thu Jan 23, 2020