Prelude: World 12

[Hrenli]

devs can at least make their profit on me. Why not?

Have you spent at least some time estimating the "profit"? To make server easy runable by anyone of you geniuses is already quite an effort to be made first (we know it's not easy to setup right now). But the biggest part of the cost would be to support it, meaning Loftar would spent 90% of his time digging your private server logs you sent after yet another crash caused by badly tuned mysql db or whatever. Profit, yeah...

[Resture]

Splitting the server into separate continents[peaceful/pvp] is a terrible idea.

[VDZ]

You say the game has too little population to afford a split server? I say it can't afford not to have a split server. One of the main reasons sane people don't join this game is the permadeath full loot open pvp. But if we're married to the idea that the ones playing (and the battered wife syndrome people that rejoin every new early world) are all the people the game will ever have then sure.

Btw lack of non pvp server is not the only thing that keeps sane people away. The other is the ever increasing amounts of grind one has to go through as he progresses through the game. Instead of doing simple shit easier haven decides no higher tech just means more shit to grind and more and more. Also bots and alts. But we don't want to solve the real problems of the game so we force people to raid each other cause that will make the game FUUUUUUN...

The devs could turn Haven & Hearth into a total theme park MMO and it would definitely attract more players. Giving the game more mainstream appeal should not by itself be a sufficient reason to remove unique aspects of the game.

Now, the game possibly becoming more fun for existing players could be a better argument, but the devs have made it pretty clear that people will be annoying as fuck even if no explicit PvP systems are implemented. Without PVP there is no way for the world to police itself, and past divine interventions have shown that jorb and loftar utterly hate wasting their time investigating and punishing unfair play (rather than spending their time actually improving the game).

[pppp]

Without PVP there is no way for the world to police itself, and past divine interventions have shown that jorb and loftar utterly hate wasting their time investigating and punishing unfair play (rather than spending their time actually improving the game).

Buuuut, does it work WITH pvp ? Is there less unfair play or we are just labelling things as a "feature".

Perhaps we need a clear statement from devs if they aim for:
1) a pvp-intense world which leaves little space for casuals and pvp is the main source of fun
or
2) a pvp-scarce world where pve is the main source of fun and pvp is a means of punishment and settling disputes but is too costly to be a common thing.

I see a number of pvp-oriented players pulling the rope towards 1) while long-term dwellers seem to prefer 2).

You can't have both. It's cost of pvp (player-hours to cover loses in a fight) that shifts the balance between 1) and 2).

[Ozzy123]

Why do people keep saying that PVP leaves no room for peacefull hermits to play? You are literally protected from dying with this new system, just don't buy murder and you're fine. How can dying to PVP make hermits quit if they can't die to PVP?


Please, instead of spamming next 10 pages with "pls private non-pvp world!!" push devs to fix these sieging changes, I promise that's way more important for all the peacefull hermits than a non-pvp world.

[Greus]

devs can at least make their profit on me. Why not?

Have you spent at least some time estimating the "profit"? To make server easy runable by anyone of you geniuses is already quite an effort to be made first (we know it's not easy to setup right now). But the biggest part of the cost would be to support it, meaning Loftar would spent 90% of his time digging your private server logs you sent after yet another crash caused by badly tuned mysql db or whatever. Profit, yeah...

The technical side has been already discussed here: http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/vie ... 19#p841719

[Hrenli]

The technical side has been already discussed here: http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/vie ... 19#p841719

I repeat my question. Have you tried to estimate the cost in loftarhours? We have a few server crashes per season on average nowdays. You want to mupltiply server instances with different rulesets and do it for free maintenance-wise???

[shubla]

Why do people keep saying that PVP leaves no room for peacefull hermits to play? You are literally protected from dying with this new system, just don't buy murder and you're fine. How can dying to PVP make hermits quit if they can't die to PVP?


Please, instead of spamming next 10 pages with "pls private non-pvp world!!" push devs to fix these sieging changes, I promise that's way more important for all the peacefull hermits than a non-pvp world.

Im pretty sure that you can still die. They said the same in beginning of w11 that you could live peacefully, but my char got murdered on the first days!!

[pppp]

Why do people keep saying that PVP leaves no room for peacefull hermits to play?

For example because:
- some casuals cannot afford to log-in daily and remove a wrecking ball in-time,
- they might lack time and opportunity to learn game tricks properly
- they might lack time to build all required defenses, even less likely to do it properly,

Besides there is quite a lot of "if you are not top then you suck and should play another game" mentality here.

Death protection is not everything. Losing the base hurts as much.

I think I was the first one in this thread to ask for mitigating binary siege outcome I also already said that 8 hours per two weeks spent on guarding is too much and that's even more if you include helping friends.

You are missing the point about pvp and non-pvp servers. Some, but not all players around here played Salem when the two expedition servers were active. Pvp players did have some fun playing expeditions for a while but sooner or later the losing parties moved back to carebear server and went back at demanding more pvp at carebear server. So the point is to let pvpers play a server with the rules they ask for and let them see the outcome, while trying not to lose peaceful playerbase.

[Greus]

The technical side has been already discussed here: http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/vie ... 19#p841719

I repeat my question. Have you tried to estimate the cost in loftarhours? We have a few server crashes per season on average nowdays. You want to mupltiply server instances with different rulesets and do it for free maintenance-wise???

1) I dont need the server instances to be with different rulesets, the existing ones are ok.
2) I dont want it to be for free.
3) If maintenance after server crash is too difficult... I definetely dont mind a simple rollback. Or is it sich a complex problem to make backups every 10–20 days?