@Loftar: Java vs Flash

[spectacle]

I can write Java in Emacs and compile it in a terminal.

Emacs, really? I somehow thought you'd be a vi guy...

[Jeff]

You should program it in Shakespeare.
Or in Whitespace too.
There are a lot of funny languages out there.

[Sidran]

For 2D content client that is on par with c++ (speed and size) and able to compile for Win/Lin/Mac I would suggest Pure Basic
Dont underestimate it for "basic" keyword.
Its pretty cheap and unbelievably awesome.

[sabinati]

are there really any viable alternatives for coding the client?

C++ like most game manufacturers?

If I were a programmer I do it in pearl just to spite the windoze gaming community.

the problem with C and derived languages is that it would require compilation and distribution for different platforms, so i'd hardly say that was viable.

[Gringo]

Stackless Python + STL + ogre?

[VowOfSilence]

are there really any viable alternatives for coding the client?

C++ like most game manufacturers?

If I were a programmer I do it in pearl just to spite the windoze gaming community.

the problem with C and derived languages is that it would require compilation and distribution for different platforms, so i'd hardly say that was viable.

yup, this thread was intended mainly for web and cross-platform stuff - and that kinda limits you to java and flash, and maybe ajax for simpler games.

and, of course *drumroll* silverlight!
and you thought flash was awful.

[Lothaudus]

Use the Unity3D Engine.

[eql]

lets not forget every game ever made with flash sucked too..

[agent_orange]

I don't understand, why people love Flash. One-click plugin install? Maybe. Perofrmance? Flash will be slower, than Java in this task (the reason, why H&H consumes such amount of resources - client is not optimized; and the only reason why it's not optimized: Jorb and Loftar are heavily involved in gameplay development, while having good enough client engine). I'm doing development both: in ActionScript and Java. I love to write code in Java and I hate to write code in AS/Flex - it's ugly and against my internal understanding, how to write software.
Loftar, here're some additional arguments:
- Flash doesn't have abstract classes; (!!!)
- Flash doesn't allow to create multiple constructors (!!!)
- Flash collections API doesn't exists (only ArrayCollection, Array and associative version of Array; the last one is a poor substitution for full-fledged HashMap)
- They don't have Longs, their Number is just poor double.
- Serialization via AMF (another proprietary technology from Adobe) have some "specifics".

And of course...
- Flash developers eating each other!
- There must be dragons somewhere in depths of Flash API

[InfamousLlama]

Flash isn't so bad. Avoid the UI and Flex, stick with AS3 in a decent IDE (FlashDevelop), and you can lay down code pretty quick -- like, python or ruby quick. I bet its performance could be comparable to Java for simple 2D graphics like this game.

I think the flash compiler is now technically open source, though not to the point where anyone's really contributing.

That said, most of the flash on the internet is crap, and browsers tend to leak memory (more) after hitting flash. But then again, most of the internet is crap in general, and browsers tend to be pretty crap in general.

--edit--

Wait, did you just imply you'd rather be working in Lisp, sitting on top of Java? All the craziness of Lisp with all the memory management issues of Java? (Eh, not in the sense of C++ memory management, but in the sense of allocating heap via command line args, tweaking GC settings, never knowing exactly what the GC is doing, etc.)

I think your choice of language is what fills the bears with murderous rage. But then, I'm C++ by nature, so I guess I'd fill them with some sort of OCD complex and impenetrable syntax.