Devs stance against RMT, bug abusing, and player abusing

[shubla]

Maybe these people are generating the majority cashflow for this game. Every noob extorted for a hat or token is money in jorbtar's pocket after all. Maybe these people are actually Jorbtar alts?

It's possible but I doubt it. There must be better ways of making money with the game if devs were aiming for that.

[F1nch]

Not a current player, but I ended up leaving the game after having my base raided and being told to pay money on Paypal to have my items returned. Just killed any and all motivation to play, though there were other contributing factors. No other game would allow this kind of player behavior.

[shubla]

Not a current player, but I ended up leaving the game after having my base raided and being told to pay money on Paypal to have my items returned. Just killed any and all motivation to play, though there were other contributing factors. No other game would allow this kind of player behavior.

A story way too common amongst many quit players I'm sure. Most of which do not even care to visit the forums anymore after losing their all will for this game after such experience. Would really like to know devs opinion on this, and possibly try change it, correct it, if it is a wrong opinion, in my opinion!

---

One may think that it is a big chore to do these things or such. But that is not true.
Initially it may be, but there will be a positive self-reinforcing snowball-effect after community has been steered towards a better direction.
Same works the opposite way too, having problematic people and practices causes more problematic people and practices turning the community and game towards spiraling doom.

[Rebs]

I don't think this is a Dev problem. Players should always be encouraged never to be blackmailed for irl stuff. and fairly i think blackmailing for any in-game items is fine. It's a pvp sandbox. The amount of times i have had to give over any natural resources I have found in order for natural relations or just danegeld.

This is a social problem which no one has to agree to. Everyone can say no. it has been around for years. and the number of times I have moved settlement to get away from "bad lands".

and let's be honest here. if people quit for losing their stuff then they shouldn't be playing a sandbox permadeath pvp game.

Blackmailer: "Gimmer your stuff"
You: "Nar"
Blackmailer: "Well fuck, guess I have to put the effort in to raid you now"
You: "Guess ill move to a new place then"

I don't see why the devs have to manage the player base to stop people from being stupid and trading their hats or IRL money for being raided. just go make a new base..

[F1nch]

and let's be honest here. if people quit for losing their stuff then they shouldn't be playing a sandbox permadeath pvp game.

The word I would like to point out here is "game." Yes, it is a pvp sandbox. Danger is to be expected. That's part of the fun. But when extortion becomes the main aspect of playing, and players spend all their time fleeing from these RMTers, playing turns from being fun to being a chore. The danger in a pvp game should come from pvp itself, not from being forced to pay real life money to try to squeeze even the smallest modicum of fun out of playing. The issue is not that the game is dangerous, of course it is. The issue is the involvement of real world currency and extortion.

Haven is not the real world. People play it because they enjoy it, and once that enjoyment is taken, then there are no longer players. As I stated above, this would not be allowed in any other game. This is not a simple in-game conflict. This is real world extortion. The lack of involvement from the devs on this issue is quite honestly infuriating. If not for the sake of their players, then for the sake of the player count.

[shubla]

and let's be honest here. if people quit for losing their stuff then they shouldn't be playing a sandbox permadeath pvp game.

The word I would like to point out here is "game." Yes, it is a pvp sandbox. Danger is to be expected. That's part of the fun. But when extortion becomes the main aspect of playing, and players spend all their time fleeing from these RMTers, playing turns from being fun to being a chore. The danger in a pvp game should come from pvp itself, not from being forced to pay real life money to try to squeeze even the smallest modicum of fun out of playing. The issue is not that the game is dangerous, of course it is. The issue is the involvement of real world currency and extortion.

Haven is not the real world. People play it because they enjoy it, and once that enjoyment is taken, then there are no longer players. As I stated above, this would not be allowed in any other game. This is not a simple in-game conflict. This is real world extortion. The lack of involvement from the devs on this issue is quite honestly infuriating. If not for the sake of their players, then for the sake of the player count.

Wise words!

Saying that "people who don't want to play the game should not play the game" is a bit odd.
We are trying to demand changes from devs to the game and its community for better so more people would want to play, and could enjoy the game.

So far devs have been dormant and not replied though... Does that mean that they do not care? Maybe they just need time to think, these are big decisions and difficult things to think about. I have my faith in them coming to some reasonable thoughts and sharing them with the community soon.

[Rebs]

and let's be honest here. if people quit for losing their stuff then they shouldn't be playing a sandbox permadeath pvp game.

The word I would like to point out here is "game." Yes, it is a pvp sandbox. Danger is to be expected. That's part of the fun. But when extortion becomes the main aspect of playing, and players spend all their time fleeing from these RMTers, playing turns from being fun to being a chore. The danger in a pvp game should come from pvp itself, not from being forced to pay real life money to try to squeeze even the smallest modicum of fun out of playing. The issue is not that the game is dangerous, of course it is. The issue is the involvement of real world currency and extortion.

Haven is not the real world. People play it because they enjoy it, and once that enjoyment is taken, then there are no longer players. As I stated above, this would not be allowed in any other game. This is not a simple in-game conflict. This is real world extortion. The lack of involvement from the devs on this issue is quite honestly infuriating. If not for the sake of their players, then for the sake of the player count.

Fine lets say they ban people for blackmailing. you will just end up with the same result as if the blackmailees just said no. instead of blackmailers asking for money they will just murder you and raid you off the bat which is the same as just saying no. as you pointed at, its a game so there is no threat that someone should make to you that should force you to hand over money.

[shubla]

, its a game so there is no threat that someone should make to you that should force you to hand over money.

That is not true. Who cares if it is a game?
How does playing this game, and then somebody demanding money to not raid your game differ from somebody demanding money or else he will ruin your garden.
Both have taken precious hours off your life, and you have fun with the results. But if somebody ruins the results for basically no reason, it will cause bad thoughts. Yeah, you can rebuild your base or replant your garden, but what if you didn't have to?

RMT should not be tolerated in any case, especially in the case where somebody is forcibly demanding it. I wouldn't be surprised if demanding RL money in games was even illegal, but of course its internet with parties from various countries so prosecution etc. is difficult.
Of course, siege etc. should also be fixed. To favor the 99%. But that is kind of separate issue from what this thread discusses.

[Jalpha]

This game is a containment zone for bad people. If they are stopped here they will just go trash some other part of the internet.

[shubla]

This game is a containment zone for bad people. If they are stopped here they will just go trash some other part of the internet.

Well I hope that devs think more highly of their game than having it as a dump.