Botting discussion

[TerraSleet]

How do you know this? Burden of evidence is on the accuser, not the accused.

This isn't a court of law. Burden of evidence is on everyone. Keep each other honest, and you don't have to worry about liars (as much).

In this case I disagree, because he is accusing Snail of over exaggerating the extent of their botting, without evidence. Burden of evidence doesn't only apply for legal disputes IMO.

And for what it's worth, KOA, or rather some the folk that make up the core of the group, has been those accused of botting in the past, so wouldn't that make them the accused, thus not needing to provide the evidence, and everyone else needing to cough up what the know and can prove, not just believe to be true? There's a lot of history in Haven that some of the newer players may not know, even some of the more veteran players if they haven't been active in the different communities.

Maybe I didn't quote properly, so the whole "burden of evidence" thing was misunderstood. My bad. But in the case of KOA being accused of botting, yes I believe the people who accused KOA of botting should be the ones that gave proof. Otherwise it's just baseless. Although it wouldn't surprise me if KOA did bot, it seems to be commonplace.

[Sevenless]

For what it's worth, I know last world my village was able to keep "competitive" (good enough to field usefully) gear/stats quality when playing at our peak without many bots. I think we had a mulberry picking bot and an angler node checker that we used for the most part. Farming bots were basically default area pick + pile materials.

I think the issue of burnout for non-botters becomes a very real issue. You can do it without bots, but it exhausts you after a while.

[MightySheep]

Ive been in KOA, Ive been in AD and Ive had my own village that managed to participate and be relevant in faction pvp in w10 I think its not a bad haven experience to say that this botting whining is massively over exaggerated.

Terrasleet I dont care if you believe me or not about Snail lying about his botting. Someone even said in thread that loftar confirmed that the chat bots were just text macros. Its kind of obvious even if he didnt confirm it. The whole reason he does it is to fuel whine threads like this

Like I said before you have pretty much all the same bots everyone else has with most of the main custom clients. Pretty sure all the main ones have the farming thing etc. Our farmer in KOA this world was just some old russian lady and our miner was mainly mietzi who doesnt use mining bot. There is some private stuff like pearl bot but honestly the extent to which ppl give a fuck about setting that up I know like 1 or 2 people who bothered. The bot to check for anglerfish and mammoths is pretty common though but its not exactly game breaking.

[VDZ]

Someone even said in thread that loftar confirmed that the chat bots were just text macros. Its kind of obvious even if he didnt confirm it.

The quote referred to:

just solve the bot problem. Then the Snuggle will be nothing and nobody, just a bunch of shit

Just in case anyone actually doubted, the only botting related to what happens in the chat is a chat bot. Regardless of what botting is actually going on, it is not actually reflected in the chat.

[MightySheep]

I mean fair play to snail he actually managed to trigger so many ppl with this chat bot

[kabuto202]

Okay, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were potentially interested in learning something instead of just mocking you for being opinionated while clueless. But honestly, just gonna speed run you being wrong about this, because I genuinely don't want to waste anymore of my time with you. VDZ was obtuse but at least they were making something resembling salient points, taking this trite seriously over them feels somewhat more insulting to do than the actual insults I threw at them.

not applicable to a sandbox mmo.

All of those were lifted tips from botting suggestions for RuneScape post. RuneScape is a sandbox MMO.

once again evading a simple answer.

It wasn't an evasion, it was me politely explaining why your question is stupid. You incidentally got an answer on the follow-up post.

eve online (its just one game, to show that i can answer your question and you cant cause all your tales are purely theoretical)

Prove it. Please do a statistical analysis of posts bitching about bots relative to community size by month as a point of comparison. Then list all additional factors in how the games are different or similar in relevant ways (don't forget to mention EVE's RMT economy).

ah yes... and i suddenly remember how BDO is great example of a game that is not affected by bots (apart from the ones you named yourself ofc - and about those i heard lots of stuff how they are "not affecting" the game)
https://youtu.be/8K03OrCzmNI it is an old video from a 1st russian iteration of BDO, but i highly doubt that anything changed to the better

They aren't relevant. Botting hasn't been part of player discourse on NA server for like 4 years now. Different regional publishers are responsible for their own game security (common issue with East -> West localizations due to IDs). If you think botting situation on Russian server from 4-5 years ago is the same on NA/KR servers now, just go ahead and donate your brain to science because you're not using it anyways.

[KwonChiMin]

[quote="kabuto202"][/quote]
evasions and insults, i guess thats what is now called smart scientific approach...

[Okocim]

There is one thing I don't understand, why do some people fight against any kind of anti-bot measures so hard?
Is it because all that time you invested developing them would go to waste?
Would you miss your bots that much?

Do you think it's impossible to do anything about them?

You brought up Runescape and EVE Online as examples of mmo where devs were not successful in fighting bots, but is that really true?
Do you think that severity of bot impact on these games would be the same even if they would not do anything about them?
Keep in mind that both of these games also have RMT to deal with, which is not the case in haven.(not gonna explain why it's relevant)

In haven at least 10% of online characters are bots, most if not all major factions are using them and are encouraging their members to use them.
In EVE online is it even 1%? many major factions are simply against using bots and are removing players from corps if they find them using bots.

[KwonChiMin]

Keep in mind that both of these games also have RMT to deal with, which is not the case in haven.(not gonna explain why it's relevant)

yeah... right... not the case.

[Okocim]

Keep in mind that both of these games also have RMT to deal with, which is not the case in haven.(not gonna explain why it's relevant)

yeah... right... not the case.

Let's see at eBay:
runescape 195 results
EVE Online 105 results
Haven and Hearth 3 results (and it's actually showing some art supplies)

Seem like they do have to deal with it and haven do not.