Bone Mother's Market

[trinh]

I bet jorb/loftar know how many accounts are actually involved in pvp or have pvp.

Do you think casual player can stand some toon created by fraction with 1000s stats, or will patrol their claims every 24h if some sad basement dweller is setting wrecking ball and later comes again and again to bash fresh walls?

More ppl are intrested in sandbox building at free time, not schedule their lifes to flex hearthlings stats while running with b12 around.

Opt-out for pvp!

[VDZ]

Opt-out for pvp!

These, and many other conceivable actions, are far easier ways to grief people than is PvP, and PvP is the only thing that keeps them somewhat in check. Therefore, removing PvP results not in less griefing, but in more.

(Developer Thoughts on PvP)

[trinh]

I know, this post is 6y old, and still not accurate with wannabe "forum drama and perma death" game leaders whose are slowly drifting away from harsh death from legacy anyway cause 90% players are not enjoying shit caused by max 10%.
BG have Flaming Fist, EVE has Concord to protect weaker.

You can do literally shit against 99% of griefers as casual player, while bunch of players have fun at cost of other.
pvp is invalid as balance argument.

BM was nice place for trading stuff with option for some socializing, pushing credos forward.
We can't have nice things.

Keep pvp realm thing, fighthing over cairns, thingwalls whatever

[Halbertz]

EVE has Concord to protect weaker.

Concord never intended to actually protect weaker. Concord is imminent punishment for breaking the law. It's not Shackley's Watchbird -- different mechanism for different purposes.

[magisticus]

[serious discourse]

If you want other players to be better you should make a tutorial for top-level play. If you indeed have some bots/clients/third-party software, as you've either claimed or joked about, you should share.

Won't help the complete farmville-wannabe's but could give us in the middle a lot more confidence.

Client creators aren't going to share the advantages they have privately created for these groups. It's gotten so bad that there are clients completely stripped of everything except the bare minimum required to log in to a character and have scripts run those characters to check nodes, farm, and/or perform other various actions.

And actually playing the game like that would probably not appeal to most people, certainly not myself, completely cancels any sense of achievement other than perhaps for the person who writes the script.

[VDZ]

And actually playing the game like that would probably not appeal to most people, certainly not myself, completely cancels any sense of achievement other than perhaps for the person who writes the script.

The sense of achievement comes from murdering random sprucecaps with your botted stats and gear.

[mulamishne]

The sense of achievement comes from murdering random sprucecaps with your botted stats and gear.

Hey, you're half right.
Bots don't contribute to my gear or stats at all, but I sure do appreciate the achievement of upsetting people like you on the forums.

[Zampfeo]

I know, this post is 6y old, and still not accurate with wannabe "forum drama and perma death" game leaders whose are slowly drifting away from harsh death from legacy anyway cause 90% players are not enjoying shit caused by max 10%.
BG have Flaming Fist, EVE has Concord to protect weaker.

You can do literally shit against 99% of griefers as casual player, while bunch of players have fun at cost of other.
pvp is invalid as balance argument.

BM was nice place for trading stuff with option for some socializing, pushing credos forward.
We can't have nice things.

Keep pvp realm thing, fighthing over cairns, thingwalls whatever

I recognize the issue that there exists a large rift between PVPers and non-PVPers, but the last thing this game needs is to be split between PVP and non-PVP realms. Haven doesn't have a lot of players as it is. Nor does it have the dev power to balance two different gameplay systems.

The reality is Jorb's game design style is probably never going to change. The way things are designed support sandbox freedom even to the point of it being detrimental to the gameplay. And I don't think he has any empathy for players that work full time. Eve Online is a good point of comparison. It is as sandbox as it can be to the point where it starts to effect gameplay. Everything from high-sec, concord, siege mechanics, skilling, horizontal progression, etc. are all designed the way it is so more casual players have a place in the game. The designers of Eve have been so successful because they've designed the game with the gameplay of their different types of players in mind. This is why Eve is the only successful sandbox MMO in existence. Haven, in contrast, is designed on a whim.

My point is, casual players have been having a bad time in Haven for its entire existence and that is probably never going to change. Haven is a game where the strong excel.

[magisticus]

Its go worse lately though, with some things. Tbh combat seems more reasonable in most regards, it just needs some slowing down of the quality progression.

[Potjeh]

LOL @ all the people pretending combat system has actual depth. It's a simple stat/quality comparison, and whoever has higher numbers wins by default.