Game Development: World 13

[ChildhoodObesity]

I can't talk for everybody, but having alts made the game way less fun for me. Having to balance out my stats and not be a specialist made me do everything ob my own and really never got bored. I'm no sprucecap as all my attributes besides psyche is around 200 and I can easily take out enemies I want to take out, besides end game atuff, on my own. I get to cook and try to find so many differenf kinds of foods too.

I play with someone who basically does the same but we have different credos, I'm more of a carpenter/crafter ; she is more of a miner/blacksmith.

We just have fun taking care of our stuff, we don't try to hoard as many things as possible and we don't spend all our free time playing.

I think powerplaying, repeating the same task over and over is an unfun thing to do. Specialization can be fun and rewarding, but in the end the game is about "you do you", be what you wanna be.

Heck, I even dabble in making map-pixel art.

The game is never stale for me.

Stop powerplaying, maybe you'll find something you like in it. Also, I'm pretty sure most players don't powerplay so hard.

even if you're not powerplaying there are basically caps in place for almost everything in the game or points to where it's no longer useful to do certain things and when the game is a year old pretty much any experienced player can hit these caps. even in 6 months an experienced player would hit them. at this point of the world you'd be surprised how high stats can get with very little effort. you may not be a sprucecap but experienced players can raise 200 of a stat in 1 day with extremely little effort (probably less than 1-2 hours) at this point as the world has been ongoing for over a year.

[ZoniaX]

2. No real end game.

Can someone point to a game with a good end game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPbsDmzZ3Oc

https://projectzomboid.com/blog/the-game/

"This Is How I Died"

- Crescite et multiplicamini -

[VDZ]

2. No real end game.

Can someone point to a game with a good end game?

In Kingdom of Loathing, after finishing the final quest, you get the option to 'ascend' and reincarnate as a new character, resetting all of your stats and temporarily making you lose all of your items, but granting all of your future incarnations a permanent buff. For the first 1000 turns of this new run, you cannot trade with other players and can only access a limited number of your old items. ('Hardcore' challenge runs don't allow you to trade or access old items at all until you finish the final quest again.) With each ascension you make certain choices which provide extra challenge (with extra rewards at the end) or unlock content that can only be accessed on specific runs. This way, they leverage the early game content by making 'starting over' a core part of the game loop.

[DoctorCookie]

As a direct comparison to the mechanics of this game noone can post a good end game. There are games that extended gameplay pretty well, Everquest with alternate advancement comes to mind. Of course that was a game with skill caps. I consider it a benchmark but in terms of longevity Haven has it beat. UO had skill caps, the end game was making a new character or changing your current one. Eve has ships to master. You can get your ass kicked by a player with less total time but that has specialized more than you, and it has zones to allow players to get up to competitive speed. The limitless skill gain and quality gain in this game seems to require resets. On top of that I think Jorb is right to ask what mmo has a great end game, has that ever been mastered? Tough to say yes unless you reach for obscure titles.

[wonder-ass]

2. No real end game.

Can someone point to a game with a good end game?

game doesn't need an endgame u already have a decent amount of progression games like these usually have wipe days.

[Zodiac215]

Ragnarok has a good endgame, trying to get the overpower MVP cards that has 0,01% to drop from mobs the take hours to respawn and the castle wars that gives a chest to winner clan which can drop (with very low chances) the required items to create a godly item, these stuff can take years to be done on a server starting from scratch

[Hadehariast]

2. No real end game.

Can someone point to a game with a good end game?

To be perfectly frank with you, Haven has end-game content, but you're unwilling to protect it as such. Whales, mammoths, trolls-- you've got a lot of things that should be "end-game", but they can all be killed in the first month of a new world. That's content that should be better protected, either by closing the loopholes which allow people to commit acts of cheese, or by making that content far more deadly.

Beyond that, I believe you'll never achieve further longevity of a world if you continue to allow botting. Half of the cries of "restart the server, there's nothing to do!" come from people who've chosen to automate vast portions of the game-- farming, cheesemaking, silkmaking, steelmaking, and so on. Clay gathering (aka. gold pebble gathering) early in the game. All of it detracts from the game and shortens the longevity of each world. Now, I know that the common response to this has been to ask whether you and loftar, as developers, should spend your limited time policing or developing-- well, maybe it's finally time to come down on the side of policing. To be perfectly honest, I haven't found the patches particularly inspiring recently-- no new buildings, no new transportation methods, no new dungeons, nothing that changes the way the game is played. If our patches going forward are going to be a re-skinned hat, a new mushroom, and some re-drawn buttons, then it's time to rethink what your development goals are. At a certain point, protecting the content you've already built adds more to the gameplay than adding new content does.

[DonVelD]

Beyond that, I believe you'll never achieve further longevity of a world if you continue to allow botting. Half of the cries of "restart the server, there's nothing to do!" come from people who've chosen to automate vast portions of the game-- farming, cheesemaking, silkmaking, steelmaking, and so on. Clay gathering (aka. gold pebble gathering) early in the game.

It's worth noting that the amount of botting is vastly overestimated by a lot of people. In addition people bot mainly because of the reason that a lot of those activities are tedious and unnecessarily take too much time doing. In my opinion the people shouldn't be blamed, but the game. If the game was much more pleasant to play it wouldn't have as much of botting as there is (which I remind you isn't that big).

Also, gold pebble gathering? Is it a thing? You'd need at least 10 of the golden pebbles for a nugget and the chance for getting them is abysmally low. Even so, what would you do with it that early?

By the way, even without bots it would be entirely possible to manually do everything you just listed. It's completely normal for people to compete in a game like this by speedrunning to the highest qualities and best items, with the use of bots or not.

[VDZ]

Beyond that, I believe you'll never achieve further longevity of a world if you continue to allow botting. Half of the cries of "restart the server, there's nothing to do!" come from people who've chosen to automate vast portions of the game-- farming, cheesemaking, silkmaking, steelmaking, and so on. Clay gathering (aka. gold pebble gathering) early in the game. All of it detracts from the game and shortens the longevity of each world. Now, I know that the common response to this has been to ask whether you and loftar, as developers, should spend your limited time policing or developing-- well, maybe it's finally time to come down on the side of policing. To be perfectly honest, I haven't found the patches particularly inspiring recently-- no new buildings, no new transportation methods, no new dungeons, nothing that changes the way the game is played. If our patches going forward are going to be a re-skinned hat, a new mushroom, and some re-drawn buttons, then it's time to rethink what your development goals are. At a certain point, protecting the content you've already built adds more to the gameplay than adding new content does.

As a non-botter: The alternative to botting is to simply not doing those activities. The fact that I don't bot isn't magically going to motivate me to repeatedly perform tedious tasks. Farming is something I do, but only up to a certain quality level - past q40 diminishing returns start hitting hard, so I'll get to q60-70 at most. Cheesemaking requires a lot of hassle to get just a tiny amount of cheese; as powerful as cheese is, I'd rather stick to far less tedious foods even if they're less efficient. Silkmaking and steelmaking require me to plan my life (as in, real life, where I may have other priorities) around them, so I never do the former and only do the latter when absolutely necessary.

Enforcing tedium in the most tedious aspects of the game isn't going to make the game more fun.

[mulamishne]

Clay gathering (aka. gold pebble gathering) early in the game.

This isn't a thing.

The issue with content such as silkmaking is that once you have a merchant robe and a few other gear pieces it's just grinding out chests.

The issue with anything that provides feps is there's a definite capstone to alot of things (400) where additional stats don't affect crafting recipes, and pvp will die around then too.

Same issue with lp more or less.

There reaches a point where you're grinding just to grind.