Im done.

[abt79]

try Stardew or Legacy Haven, singleplayer games are a lot more “chill”

[tyrtix]

try Stardew or Legacy Haven, singleplayer games are a lot more “chill”

H&H appealed me for a lot of time, but i still keep playing wurm instead. Loved to like H&H more again, but really cannot, every effort feels pointless.

[azrid]

don't you believe that is the same as settling in cave to be safe? there's no way to be safe in game because the limitations of the game itself and its mechanics.

That's where you are wrong.
There's a huge incentive to go inside caves to find dust jewels.
Only bots and noobs run across grasslands where you should be hiding your first claim.
I don't know how many worlds you have been playing haven but its time for you to learn some basics.

[tyrtix]

don't you believe that is the same as settling in cave to be safe? there's no way to be safe in game because the limitations of the game itself and its mechanics.

That's where you are wrong.
There's a huge incentive to go inside caves to find dust jewels.
Only bots and noobs run across grasslands where you should be hiding your first claim.
I don't know how many worlds you have been playing haven but its time for you to learn some basics.

are you aware you're speaking of different things than i do? nothing you said now implies anything different than i did: moving away from water to be safe is the same as settling in a cave by game mechanics, but the game gives you options to do otherwise and then make these options not working. The problem in bad design here, that drives players away, is divergence of intents in game mechanics...at least what is in game, should work as intended.

[abt79]

dear jorbe pls make hafen a handholding theme park mmo so theres no possible way I make a choice that isnt to my advantage im just a lil guy pls help I dont want to have to learn from my mistakes or devise emergent solutions from tools at my disposal

literally skill issue and unironically git gud

[azrid]

are you aware you're speaking of different things than i do? moving away from water to be safe is the same as settling in a cave by game mechanics, but the game gives you options to do otherwise and then make these options not working. The problem in bad design here, that drives players away, is divergence of intents in game mechanics...at least what is in game, should work as intended.

I think its healthy to have bad options as a choice in a videogame. A game where there is no fail state is not a game at all. A game without a fail state becomes a story like an interactive book or movie would be.

You being bad at the game, didn't understand the advice I gave you.
When you build a base away from water you don't need to go minimap load distance away. You can hide in plain sight 50 tiles away from water.
You won't be a recluse as you described. You will be hidden while your noob neighbors struggle with random griefers because they paved a few tiles or really wanted to plant crops where their undried claim or palisade is.

Play smart not hard.
I recommend having a chat with a haven and hearth veteran about your problems before you give up and start doomposting on the forums. I can guarantee you most good players will be happy to share their basic knowledge that you are severely lacking.

You complain about having to be a recluse in haven and hearth yet you refuse to communicate with your fellow hearthlings about your problems.
Look within yourself before you complain that the game is flawed.
Maybe its the player(YOU!) that is flawed.

[tyrtix]

I think its healthy to have bad options as a choice in a videogame. A game where there is no fail state is not a game at all. A game without a fail state becomes a story like an interactive book or movie would be.

You being bad at the game, didn't understand the advice I gave you.
When you build a base away from water you don't need to go minimap load distance away. You can hide in plain sight 50 tiles away from water.
You won't be a recluse as you described. You will be hidden while your noob neighbors struggle with random griefers because they paved a few tiles or really wanted to plant crops where their undried claim or palisade is.

Play smart not hard.
I recommend having a chat with a haven and hearth veteran about your problems before you give up and start doomposting on the forums. I can guarantee you most good players will be happy to share their basic knowledge that you are severely lacking.

You complain about having to be a recluse in haven and hearth yet you refuse to communicate with your fellow hearthlings about your problems.
Look within yourself before you complain that the game is flawed.
Maybe its the player(YOU!) that is flawed.

Clearly you are failing at comprehend we speak about different things.

I did not "failed" the game, i can play it mfollowing the general rules other players uses for safety, as i did in other iterations, yet i'd play a game that do not cater to me the experience i'm searching for, and will bore me in a matter of days.

This happens to an awful lot of players, apparently the majority of them following stats, because the game give them the impression of catering some kind of experience than then do not fulfill.
In game design principles, players search for certain base experiences, for example adrenaline of combat, or exploration, or a story to be told: h&h feels like you have lot to build and explore, but then you get in and see you cannot just build as common sense will suggest. Some players knows that and avoid to build like that, but some do not, and get raided. That is fair and can happen, but then you fail in the game at giving a certain kind of experience, so you'll loose that playerbase.

In that way, the game shows promises to be a great exploration game, but then you find that if you're not good at pvp, you simply will die by just stepping out of your pally, if you have one, thus dismissing that promise, removing the motivation from the player to play.
The problem with H&H is that his developement reached a level in wich you have two distinct playing phases for each world: one with full pvp, and one that follows, where pve and slow-pacing find a place. Obviously this cannot be truly the game envisioned at start.
It's sad because h&h always had potential, on my eyes: i'd even try a full pve server if it was for me, and i bet a lot of ppl would play it.

[Halbertz]

i'd even try a full pve server if it was for me, and i bet a lot of ppl would play it.

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Pvp here is for reason - old and simple tool to have things done. And I swear, you don't want to know what horrors beyond our comprehension could be unleashed on "pve server".

[abt79]

“There should be a pve server” ok i log into no-pvp server and break your claim pole. That’s not a combat interaction

“Noooo on a pve server you shouldnt be able to break other ppls claims at all” ok so I claim the entire area around your claim so you can’t expand (and can’t break my claim). Or build annoying objects around it e.g. i surround your claim/hf with a palisade without doors.

bro aint read the damn Developer Thoughts on PVP from over a decade ago.

“PVP” isn’t just a single discrete game system; it’s context-dependent whether, for example, claiming land or breaking someone else’s claim qualifies as an “aggressive” act. And a sprucecap bozo living to close to you is inconveniencing you as much if not more than you are inconveniencing them when you break their goofy unprotected+unhidden claim pole. Inconveniencing people is a fundamental reality of a persistent world with persistent (ie limited) items and land. The only reason the game enters what you call a “pve” phase is because the playerbase shrinks enough that the ‘aggression’ becomes less likely as supply exceeds demand.

The only possible PVE haven is singleplayer. Go play legacy which has max 10 concurrent players for good reason: other thinking people are simply a more compelling obstacle to deal with (or community to collaborate with) than any stat grind or NPC ai.

[azrid]

I did not "failed" the game, i can play it mfollowing the general rules other players uses for safety, as i did in other iterations, yet i'd play a game that do not cater to me the experience i'm searching for, and will bore me in a matter of days.

This happens to an awful lot of players, apparently the majority of them following stats, because the game give them the impression of catering some kind of experience than then do not fulfill.
In game design principles, players search for certain base experiences, for example adrenaline of combat, or exploration, or a story to be told: h&h feels like you have lot to build and explore, but then you get in and see you cannot just build as common sense will suggest. Some players knows that and avoid to build like that, but some do not, and get raided. That is fair and can happen, but then you fail in the game at giving a certain kind of experience, so you'll loose that playerbase.

In that way, the game shows promises to be a great exploration game, but then you find that if you're not good at pvp, you simply will die by just stepping out of your pally, if you have one, thus dismissing that promise, removing the motivation from the player to play.
The problem with H&H is that his developement reached a level in wich you have two distinct playing phases for each world: one with full pvp, and one that follows, where pve and slow-pacing find a place. Obviously this cannot be truly the game envisioned at start.
It's sad because h&h always had potential, on my eyes: i'd even try a full pve server if it was for me, and i bet a lot of ppl would play it.

Giving up so early after not losing much effort is a sign of a stupid casual gamer.
The smart casual gamer will learn from the mistakes and thrive on his next try.
You have been playing many worlds and fail to learn.
You are destined to be tortured in Haven until you cast off your pride.

There is a solution to your problem but you ignore it and want the game to change in stead of improving yourself.