Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

[KwonChiMin]

You believe the advice from the best pvpers can make the best pvp game, but it's the opposite.

I wholeheartedly agree, and don't see how you could interpret what I said to mean the opposite. If Jorbtar earnestly wanted to make PVP more enjoyable they would've found 3 hours to spend at some point in the past 15 years to learn the fundamentals so they wouldn't need to entirely rely on advice from PVPers.

I'm only rly using PVP as an example, but that's kindof how every part of the game is. I doubt Jorbtar knows how people raise qualities, what herding for a year+ is like, how village management actually plays out, how to build/maintain a market, what client features are desirable, etc.

Imagine every dev would speedrun their game and complete it for 100% platinum achievements before even thinking about releasing the game to the market. What world we would be living in.

[Vert]

I think that the influence of individual players needs to be reduced, at the moment you can easily try to exterminate everyone around you, while the best worlds were when groups of people depended on each other.

Titans should be rare, PvP injuries should take a very long time to heal, so that it would be necessary to create 3-5 combat characters with average stats per person. Prioritizing industrial villages and their development, and not the development of one character who will do whatever he wants.

If we have 15 people who will do whatever they want, there will be no interesting game. Superhero kids will destroy everything. I don't think this is a game about superhero kids.

After this, PvP will definitely become more interesting, because it will not be for the sake of PvP, but for the sake of achieving goals. There will be such a word as defeat and victory.

[abt79]

I think that the influence of individual players needs to be reduced, at the moment you can easily try to exterminate everyone around you, while the best worlds were when groups of people depended on each other.

Titans should be rare, PvP injuries should take a very long time to heal, so that it would be necessary to create 3-5 combat characters with average stats per person. Prioritizing industrial villages and their development, and not the development of one character who will do whatever he wants.

If we have 15 people who will do whatever they want, there will be no interesting game. Superhero kids will destroy everything. I don't think this is a game about superhero kids.

After this, PvP will definitely become more interesting, because it will not be for the sake of PvP, but for the sake of achieving goals. There will be such a word as defeat and victory.

1. The game has always been inherently competitive, which rewards stomping all players around you, and minmaxing to make stomping easier

2. Devs have spent years intentionally making the game more opaque and bloated (e.g. adding trillions of food/alchemy recipes when only ~twenty are viable, adding large endgame creatures which reward with massive amounts of endgame mats with no intended way to kill them, making glassmaking and mining more tedious, lower mine levels require thousands of str and give best ore, etc etc) such that only the most committed players can parse that overwhelming information and progress optimally - some do, but they also need pvp prowess to not get stomped themselves and pvp stomping is one of the few things that can motivate a person to conquer such ridiculous obstacles

Whether it was their overarching design goal or not the devs’ design decisions have created the game you seem to think it shouldn’t be. Git gud or leave tbh you won’t change jorb, better men have tried.

[DDDsDD999]

Devs have spent years intentionally making the game more opaque and bloated (e.g. adding trillions of food/alchemy recipes when only ~twenty are viable, adding large endgame creatures which reward with massive amounts of endgame mats with no intended way to kill them, making glassmaking and mining more tedious, lower mine levels require thousands of str and give best ore, etc etc) such that only the most committed players can parse that overwhelming information and progress optimally - some do, but they also need pvp prowess to not get stomped themselves and pvp stomping is one of the few things that can motivate a person to conquer such ridiculous obstacles

Whether it was their overarching design goal or not the devs’ design decisions have created the game you seem to think it shouldn’t be. Git gud or leave tbh you won’t change jorb, better men have tried.

This is definitely all according to jorb's master plan. It's not 15 years of the devs going "whale! big! cool! add to game!" over and over with no thought to how the game ends up being played. Tedium is a feature.

[Sloppin_DuDikkin]

But the entire point of the game is that you can't max out every stat since you realistically don't have the time and resources for that, game mechanics actively push against that so you'd go out and pvp the loot and items your character isn't capable of producing. You could do trading but since most traders only accept tokens and other p2w items like hats, PvP becomes the only option.

[Vert]

I think that the influence of individual players needs to be reduced, at the moment you can easily try to exterminate everyone around you, while the best worlds were when groups of people depended on each other.

Titans should be rare, PvP injuries should take a very long time to heal, so that it would be necessary to create 3-5 combat characters with average stats per person. Prioritizing industrial villages and their development, and not the development of one character who will do whatever he wants.

If we have 15 people who will do whatever they want, there will be no interesting game. Superhero kids will destroy everything. I don't think this is a game about superhero kids.

After this, PvP will definitely become more interesting, because it will not be for the sake of PvP, but for the sake of achieving goals. There will be such a word as defeat and victory.

1. The game has always been inherently competitive, which rewards stomping all players around you, and minmaxing to make stomping easier

2. Devs have spent years intentionally making the game more opaque and bloated (e.g. adding trillions of food/alchemy recipes when only ~twenty are viable, adding large endgame creatures which reward with massive amounts of endgame mats with no intended way to kill them, making glassmaking and mining more tedious, lower mine levels require thousands of str and give best ore, etc etc) such that only the most committed players can parse that overwhelming information and progress optimally - some do, but they also need pvp prowess to not get stomped themselves and pvp stomping is one of the few things that can motivate a person to conquer such ridiculous obstacles

Whether it was their overarching design goal or not the devs’ design decisions have created the game you seem to think it shouldn’t be. Git gud or leave tbh you won’t change jorb, better men have tried.

the developers listen to pvp players too often that's why the game became like this, pvp players said oh my god i got injured and can't play i have to heal if i go out to fight i'll be killed.
Give us the opportunity to heal on the bed. they were given this opportunity and pvp completely lost its meaning.
pvp kids want fun but don't want to take risks. I would for variety bang a debuff of +30% openings and damage for those who often pvp. and none of these great warriors will go beyond the fence. because they are not fighters but children.
Let's say a great pvp kid attacked a newbie, how can you punish him in the 15th world. destroying the base is too expensive and ineffective. it turns out the only way is to go in while he is playing and try to track him down by his tracks and if he survives, and he will survive, he will be cured in 5-10 hours. If you are not interested in pvp, it all looks like a waste of time.
who suggested allowing pvp players to heal on a bed, instantly recovering from injuries, who suggested removing needbains.
the punishment for a pvp child walking and causing mischief will be depriving him of the opportunity to engage in pvp. and it is precisely this relaxation that pvp children have begged for.
The levers of pressure on pvp children have been lost and we have what we have.

[abt79]

Devs have spent years intentionally making the game more opaque and bloated

This is definitely all according to jorb's master plan. It's not 15 years of the devs going "whale! big! cool! add to game!" over and over with no thought to how the game ends up being played. Tedium is a feature.

Oh I agree completely. It’s more that they want the game to be tedious and want players to “figure out” difficult mechanics like whale hunting without grasping that veteran players will opt for the easiest and fastest solution (ie “cheesing” and scripts) because of the material gameplay incentives to minmax and subvert that tedium

the developers listen to pvp players too often that's why the game became like this,
The levers of pressure on pvp children have been lost and we have what we have.

Well no, the developers have always wanted this to be somewhat of a competitive pvp game, as per this thread (actually read this if you seriously think the PvP Cabal “pressured” the devs into making a pvp game).
And, not for nothing, supposedly “evil” pvpers are constantly arguing for the removal of unfun and noobtrappy mechanics, which they have leveraged to great advantage, like whales for instance. I’d argue the mechanics that incentivize toxic play patterns are overwhelmingly added by the devs of their own stubborn/clueless volition.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Well no, the developers have always wanted this to be somewhat of a competitive pvp game, as per this thread (actually read this if you seriously think the PvP Cabal “pressured” the devs into making a pvp game).

PvP game? Yes.
Competitive PvP? That thread has no support for that conclusion.

Valorant is a competitive PvP game.
Soccer/Football is a competitive PvP game.

They are both games designed for players to play on equal footing with the objective being winning a defined goal.

That thread you just linked is Jorb explaining that Haven is meant in many ways to simulate a true to life experience of both the wonders of nature and the transgressions of man, and PvP must be enabled to equip you to deal with others who commit trespasses against you.

If you've played Haven and read that thread and came away with the conclusion that PvP needs to more resemble league of legends, I don't know what your malfunction is but you've got one.

[Biggus_DuDickus]

I've done all this just to join the meme!

[Sloppin_DuDikkin]

Rust is a competitive pvp game.