Taxation for Protection

[Erik_the_Blue]

(This is directed at the players instead of the devs.)

It strikes me how lawless everything outside of villages seems to be, even though this is ostensibly supposed to be set in something like medieval north Europe. Didn't feudal armies go around taking crops from serf farmers in exchange for protection from local thugs (since said thugs would hurt the taxes, and thus the food supplies of the cities)? While I don't want to find myself in indentured servitude (it's not entertaining enough), I'd gladly pay a nearby village some form of tax in exchange for them doing something about the zombie alt hordes rampaging around. As it is, my best hope for retribution is to hire some not-necessarily-easy-to-contact ranger to do something *after the fact*. Just how am I supposed to pay someone when I've just been robbed?

Granted, medieval cities were "compactly" built fortresses that couldn't sustain their population without a large external food supply, whereas we have no such need for a serf/lord style dynamic in-game. Nevertheless, the villages we have need to be more ambitious. I'm hoping to see real societies and nation-states develop in-game, yet all the villages seem content with what they have now. There hasn't even been a "make trade easier" thread in a few weeks. Villages should care more about the surrounding unclaimed land. Building proper farm/village relationships would be a way of getting this started.

(On the other hand, I realize our villages generally aren't large enough to be considered cities/castles/fortresses/whatever. Maybe we need a significantly larger player base before this suggestion is practical.)

[sabinati]

*builds great wall of china*

[Jackard]

Nevertheless, the villages we have need to be more ambitious. I'm hoping to see real societies and nation-states develop in-game, yet all the villages seem content with what they have now. There hasn't even been a "make trade easier" thread in a few weeks. Villages should care more about the surrounding unclaimed land. Building proper farm/village relationships would be a way of getting this started

maybe if there were more external resources in the game

give people something to be ambitious about

[theTrav]

You're right, the player base is not large enough (and too goon heavy) to do something like that at the moment.

The other thing is that so far as I can tell there's no easy way of telling the difference between some random peasant, just wandering around doing their thing, and an evil alt thief.

[Jackard]

we could brand them i guess

[Laremere]

There really isn't any good way to tell. Sure, someone walking around with a battleaxe most likely isn't a common thief, but a person walking around in peasant clothes doesn't make them new. Today I was walking around with just default the default pants and shirt, and sometimes the stone hammer, killing foxes by punching them, because I had too much wine (cha went from 14 to 29 in one sitting), and all my other space needed to be equipped with leeches.

[Krantarin]

Actually, lare and I have talked about running a city with a similar layout in the future. It would be quite cool to be a feudal lord protecting farmers from the griefers, but right now I see two problems.

One: A lord would have no need for the crops. He doesn't need to support a family, and food is much too easy to come by through other means. You don't need farming to give FEPs. Hunting does the job twice as well, and only the powerful characters will soon be capable of it. In the near future, a character who only wants to fight won't need people to support him because he can easily hunt, and get better attributes because of it.

Two: the altpocalypse cannot be stopped by even a powerful player. Even if they can track, the goods can be moved to another blameless alt and kept safe from the ranger. It's wishful thinking to hope that a ranger can get stolen goods from a shameless and intelligent thief.

When these problems are changed, I think such a set up would be viable regardless of the current population of the game.

I can't expect the first one to change-I haven't heard our devs say a thing about this, except maybe that they'd flush out farming a little more. Specialization could help out.

The second may be fixed by a simple change--tracking stolen goods should be aided with the ability to summon and knock out (and steal from but not kill) an alt carrying stolen goods. I think I should make a post of this idea, although I'm sure the devs have already thought this through

[Erik_the_Blue]

*builds great wall of china*

*Finds unclaimed part of wall, creates trail of bear sausage leading to it, watches as Raephire brings it down.*

maybe if there were more external resources in the game

Only if they're sufficiently spaced and impossible to reproduce as well. If villages can get most of them within their direct influence, they could easily get the rest through inter-village trade, which leaves the rural farmland more of a wasteland.

The other thing is that so far as I can tell there's no easy way of telling the difference between some random peasant, just wandering around doing their thing, and an evil alt thief.

we could brand them i guess

This is basically what I was trying to do with my "___ is a Thief" thread. Granted, it's still open to abuse since we have no real justice system anywhere, and you have to open chat with the person and remember the name to tell, but it's something at least.

A lord would have no need for the crops. He doesn't need to support a family, and food is much too easy to come by through other means.

Historically, the crops were also used to feed the lord's army, not just his family. Of course, expecting someone to only ever be a soldier in a game like this is a bit ridiculous, so that's another problem. (Soldier NPCs, anyone?)

[Ferinex]

You know, now that you mention medieval fortresses: they were just that, fortresses. The only way you got inside was with many men and ladders and ropes. Smashing down a wall with an axe simply didn't happen (I'm talking about brick walls in this entire post). You know what? I think yes, they should be impenetrable by one player. This would cause the cities inside the walls to grow much more dense, to the point that it's impractical to wall off all of your farm fields, and they will move some outside the walls. Thieves can still steal from the people stuck living outside the walls, and the cities can try and protect them, perhaps collecting tax. Also, having so many people packed into an area makes in-community theft more practical. Someone may rob you blind, but they live inside the walls too. Go contact an authority figure and have that player routed/executed. Practical execution chambers could even be built by making a small walled area with a gate that only an authority has a key to, and have the authority's hearth inside it. Perhaps it would be nice if we could make summoned characters follow us : )

Ingame note: I've noticed FOxDIE does this. They have an area where punishments are handed down to villagers that break the laws. Beatings, in particular. The players go along with it, too, just because it makes for a more fun game.

[Jackard]

maybe if there were more external resources in the game

Only if they're sufficiently spaced and impossible to reproduce as well. If villages can get most of them within their direct influence, they could easily get the rest through inter-village trade, which leaves the rural farmland more of a wasteland.

Since mines will appear in the wilderness after map reset, they might become like this if devs also remove the feature that allow you to build your own.