Ranging vs Criminal Acts

[Sarge]

1. Searched "ranging" under C&I, topic titles, returned nada.

2. Yes, this has been visited before. I believe it is still 'broken' though. I would like to propose a suggestion and hopefully spark some discussion that will hopefully lead to this brilliant and rather unique mechanic to function to its potential. It plays a roll in so much of the drama, which in turn plays such a large part of the game, that I believe it deserves the attention.

3. My last understanding of the scent's spotting mechanic is this (and I beg correction here, I'm rather rusty):
- Criminal leaves scents through criminal acts.
- Scent has a value of crim's Int * Stealth
- For anyone else to spot the scent the spotter's Per * Expl is used as a check vs the crim's Int * Stealth, when they enter the screen.
- Somewhere, in either, or both of the previous 2 bullets, a random figure is added to the initial total, iirc. Therefore: (Int*Stealth)+random vs (Per * Expl)+random
- Spotter's result > Crim = scent visible to spotter

4. Problem as it stands: Somewhere in the formula, likely in the random, it currently allows, that even in case of a very small chance for the spotter to have a successful roll, it is still highly likely through repeatedly entering and leaving the screen until he has a successful roll and the scents are visible. This obviously places the criminal, almost no matter how trained he is at his profession, at a serious disadvantage... too big a disadvantage imo, is the point.

5. Suggestion: Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the random, or the re-roll. However, how about allocating a time 'flag' to the spotter's roll? I.e. The spotter makes a roll vs the scent as he enters the screen. His roll is unsuccessful and the spotter is tagged with a time flag, just like an initial corner post or idol, and will not get a re-roll after the flag is reset after a X cool down period (24 ig hrs?). Since more than one (many) scents are almost always left by a criminal, I suggest that each type of scent (theft, assault etc) receives 1 x random range roll to be added to its value, per criminal. Therefore, either the spotter is successful at all of the theft scents on that particular screen, or none until he can re-roll. He may very well be successful at all of the trespassing scents, but might miss the murder (addressing non-summonable vs summonable scents).

I may very well have made some mistakes in the exact way the formula's work, so please correct me where I did... and even if so, you should comfortably get the gist of the suggestion.

[Oddity]

Sounds good.

[Killface]

Seems like a highly accurate deduction, and a very insightful post. Entering/exiting a house repeatedly to get a successful 'roll', is stupid and inconsistent with what I believe to be the intent of stealth and intellect.

EDIT: Also, why can scents be placed into containers? So people without the investment in expl*perc can assist in tracking? Is that really the desired result?
Currently, I pick up a scent and find two containers to store copies in, then get a tracking copy and hunt it down with this. Or i make several containers, place a copy in each, and distribute them to friends who cant see the scent themselves and cant be bothered to reroll vs the stealth*int. I cant see this being the intended mechanic.

[wickerman_156]

Sounds good.

Also

EDIT: Also, why can scents be placed into containers? So people without the investment in expl*perc can assist in tracking? Is that really the desired result?
Currently, I pick up a scent and find two containers to store copies in, then get a tracking copy and hunt it down with this. Or i make several containers, place a copy in each, and distribute them to friends who cant see the scent themselves and cant be bothered to reroll vs the stealth*int. I cant see this being the intended mechanic.

yes, if they implemented Sarge's update they should fix this too I think.

[Sarge]

EDIT: Also, why can scents be placed into containers? So people without the investment in expl*perc can assist in tracking? Is that really the desired result?
Currently, I pick up a scent and find two containers to store copies in, then get a tracking copy and hunt it down with this. Or i make several containers, place a copy in each, and distribute them to friends who cant see the scent themselves and cant be bothered to reroll vs the stealth*int. I cant see this being the intended mechanic.

Oh yes! Definitely this.

[ImpalerWrG]

I think the simpler solution would be to multiply the Theft scent base value (Int * Stealth) by a random number ranging from 0.5 to 2.0 (same formula used for generating the range found in pick-able items), this modified value is permanently attached to the scent and the Rangers (Expl * Perc) value is applied to it without any modification. This will result in a consistent see/not see and eliminate any advantage to repeatedly passing over the crime scene while still preserving an element of randomness in the whole system. A Criminal is undetectable if their base value is more then double the Rangers, while the ranger is guaranteed to see the crime if they are double over the criminal, anything in between is going to be risky for the criminal and hard for the ranger as is reasonable.

P.S. Agree scents in containers are lame.

[Sarge]

I think the simpler solution would be to multiply the Theft scent base value (Int * Stealth) by a random number ranging from 0.5 to 2.0 (same formula used for generating the range found in pick-able items), this modified value is permanently attached to the scent and the Rangers (Expl * Perc) value is applied to it without any modification. This will result in a consistent see/not see and eliminate any advantage to repeatedly passing over the crime scene while still preserving an element of randomness in the whole system. A Criminal is undetectable if their base value is more then double the Rangers, while the ranger is guaranteed to see the crime if they are double over the criminal, anything in between is going to be risky for the criminal and hard for the ranger as is reasonable.

P.S. Agree scents in containers are lame.

If I read your intent correctly, then there is only a single check, if the ranger misses it, those particular scents remain tagged as missed by the ranger. he can therefore never see them until they expire.

It did however look like you may have used the description of the mechanics of spotting foragables, which does not use tagging. Meaning, that if there is rustroot outside you cabin and you go outside and can't see it, you can go back inside and come out until you can see them... this is how it works right now afaik. Which would mean that no progress is made on the matter, since you could still just 're-roll' to spot the scent. You would then only have altered the random range of the current formula.

Apologies if I misunderstood.

[Avu]

herefore, either the spotter is successful at all of the theft scents on that particular screen, or none until he can re-roll

Well that one encourages people to destroy every little shit they can see so they leave multiple vandalism scents and empty all your containers on the ground so they leave thieving scents so they will be harder to spot. No.

[Potjeh]

Yeah, that part is just horrible. It should be easier to get away with a surgical strike than with looting and burning an entire village.

[ImpalerWrG]

If I read your intent correctly, then there is only a single check, if the ranger misses it, those particular scents remain tagged as missed by the ranger. he can therefore never see them until they expire.

It did however look like you may have used the description of the mechanics of spotting foragables, which does not use tagging. Meaning, that if there is rustroot outside you cabin and you go outside and can't see it, you can go back inside and come out until you can see them... this is how it works right now afaik. Which would mean that no progress is made on the matter, since you could still just 're-roll' to spot the scent. You would then only have altered the random range of the current formula.

Apologies if I misunderstood.

I think you misunderstood, no tagging is involved at all and see/not-see is completely deterministic. I referenced foragables only as an example of the range of values that could be generated, I was not actually aware that their was a random roll involved in seeing them (which is just as silly as the Ranger stuff but not as game breaking).

I'm proposing that their is only one random number generated at the time the crime is committed rather then every time it is seen by someone, that number (from 0.5 to 2.0) is multiplied with the criminals Stealth and Int to produce a final strength value for the crime. Any Ranger walking by compares his Expl * Perc value with that Crime and sees it if his value exceeds the crimes value, if he walks away and comes back the check is performed again but because neither the crime nor his own values have changed (unless he actually raised Expl or Perc in between) the result will be the same.

This is much simpler for the game server to do as neither the crime nor the player have to be tagged with temporary data objects and Random numbers are not being generated as we walk around.