Unarmed VS. Melee

[joojoo1975]

if all the stats were the same would melee be better than unarmed?

i'm thinking yes, but i didn't know for sure.

unarmed i wouldn't need metal, and melee, well i caould craft a better ax or windblade.


right now i been pumpin points into markmenship.

[theTrav]

unarmed is generally better for generating initiative and therefore swinging combat advantage and damage output.

melee is generally better for not getting hit (shield skill) cleave and storm of swords are also quite excellent for damage output.

[dasneik]

I just like strangling; I don't even recount any other MMOs featuring it.

[joojoo1975]

so. . .

unarmed is for hitting first and good dmg output? and melee is for not gettin hit too much(as long as you use a shield) and Better dmg output?


sounds like in a even fight and all things considered equal the guy with melee wil win more often than the guy with unarmed?

is that what your saying?

[Pacho]

no, the guy with unarmed will win because all the racked up initiative (from the constant missing) will push advantage to his side and strangle the melee dude to death.

[Potjeh]

There's the problem of getting initiative points for melee special attacks. Strangle you can pretty much spam constantly, though you'll have to pause to drink every now and then.

[Blaze]

There's a bunch of other factor to consider.

1. You get roughly 2 punches for every sting attack.

2. Punch seem to be slightly more accurate than weapon attacks.

3. Storm of swords will usually kill most attackers, and if not, you'll usually have enough initiative gained from misses to use another storm of swords.

4. No Pain No Gain instantly gives you 2 initiative points at the cost of 50% of your SHP, which might not be worth it for a wrestler, but is godly for a swordsman.

5. Shield is 50% more efficient that dodge, BUT every miss has a chance of giving TWO initiative points while dodge only gives one. So that extra blocking skill might not be worth getting hit with a "Knock his teeth out" attack every few attacks.

6. Punches require 1 stamina and sting requires 2, so if battle drags out and neither player has water/tea, the battle definitely shifts in favor of the wrestler.

7. Strangle requires no initiative, but needs 33% stamina every use, so if the other player has a lot of HP, you'll be in trouble without stamina recovery items. That being said, strangle deals more damage than a punch and is a lot more accurate. HOWEVER, if the battle intensity rises over four (Like with a Fan the Flames attack) the wrestler won't be able to use it.

8. Strength has a big effect here. If both are wearing armor, the wrestler will be greatly disadvantaged or even completely ineffective if his strength isn't high enough to deal enough damage through armor. On the other hand, if both characters' strength is high - let's say... 120. - the wrestler will have 2 attacks dealing 40 damage while the swordsman with a base soldier sword will be doing 1 attack dealing 60 damage.

9. Agility too, it affects the number of swings you get with a storm of swords attack, so while low agility might not affect the wrestler, it can make a difference between life and death for a swordsman.

10. Storm of swords will rapidly pull advantage towards the swordsman. A high melee swordsman with a 50% blocking bonus and full combat advantage will be very difficult to hit.

[joojoo1975]

There's a bunch of other factor to consider.

1. You get roughly 2 punches for every sting attack.

2. Punch seem to be slightly more accurate than weapon attacks.

3. Storm of swords will usually kill most attackers, and if not, you'll usually have enough initiative gained from misses to use another storm of swords.

4. No Pain No Gain instantly gives you 2 initiative points at the cost of 50% of your SHP, which might not be worth it for a wrestler, but is godly for a swordsman.

5. Shield is 50% more efficient that dodge, BUT every miss has a chance of giving TWO initiative points while dodge only gives one. So that extra blocking skill might not be worth getting hit with a "Knock his teeth out" attack every few attacks.

6. Punches require 1 stamina and sting requires 2, so if battle drags out and neither player has water/tea, the battle definitely shifts in favor of the wrestler.

7. Strangle requires no initiative, but needs 33% stamina every use, so if the other player has a lot of HP, you'll be in trouble without stamina recovery items. That being said, strangle deals more damage than a punch and is a lot more accurate. HOWEVER, if the battle intensity rises over four (Like with a Fan the Flames attack) the wrestler won't be able to use it.

8. Strength has a big effect here. If both are wearing armor, the wrestler will be greatly disadvantaged or even completely ineffective if his strength isn't high enough to deal enough damage through armor. On the other hand, if both characters' strength is high - let's say... 120. - the wrestler will have 2 attacks dealing 40 damage while the swordsman with a base soldier sword will be doing 1 attack dealing 60 damage.

9. Agility too, it affects the number of swings you get with a storm of swords attack, so while low agility might not affect the wrestler, it can make a difference between life and death for a swordsman.

10. Storm of swords will rapidly pull advantage towards the swordsman. A high melee swordsman with a 50% blocking bonus and full combat advantage will be very difficult to hit.

and now i'm totally confused. but in a good way. i can see that there are a lot of strategy when tryin to fight other players. how about animals or PVE what is better for PVE.


To be honest, i'm swaying towards the unarmed option(lack of metal, will seem not a prob with that, but i'm prolly missing something. and of course it looks like i'll have the upper hand 60% of the time hence both martial styles are balanced. so to speak

[Lightning4]

There is another advantage for weapon users now besides just strength. Their weapons scale with QL. A wrestler will need high strength just to match a low strength person with a high QL bronze sword. (Or soldier's sword if you can manage to have someone camping the crubile for 56 hours)

And if you (somehow) get a high QL B12 axe? Forget it. That thing is doing well over 150 damage per swing at base strength.
Now I know why high QL steel is horrible to make.

[fructose]

Melee is better for hunting, that's for sure. I have high unarmed (moderately high str as well) and it's very dependent on str for most things. Accuracy and dodge come along well, but without a relatively high str, you'll need to choose your battles wisely. On the other hand, there is a certain advantage to full trad PvP in that you'll have less to lose materially than the melee fighter. A psychological advantage that's wholly dependant on your opponent being more sane than they perceive you to be, but it's still there.