Devs, what if Change/Remove Permedeath?

[dunno6988]

There has been many improvements for this game, like wounds and added text when a character dies, but what if permedeath would be changed? Well unless Jorb/Lofter you guys think that permedeath is a feature what makes haven and hearth, but what if for example amongst these options would replace pemedeath? So it would be a death and rebirth a re-spawns in their current hearth fire. For examples.

1: When character dies all of the equipment and inventory is dropped and teleported to their hearth fire.
2: When character dies all LP is reduced to 0 or all XP reduced to 0 or even both and teleported to their hearth fire.
3: When character dies everything is dropped either equipment or inventory, also includes study table and both XP and LP reduced to 0 and teleported to their hearth fire.
4: When character dies everything dropped equipment, inventory and study table, both XP and LP reduced to 0 and all Abilities and Attributes turned back to their starting stats (as if just made the character) and teleported to their hearth fire.

and so on, we could also include skills being unlearned or set other apart that everything is kept, but only either or both abilities and attributes are turned back to the starting stats and then get to return to your hearth fire. But the point is that I am trying to make that there is a penalty for death, but the progress made and everything built remains and that upon death you wouldn't lose entirely everything and be thrown to edge of the world while your base being like 12 hours away on a boat.

I am not sure why devs don't want to removed permedeath or at least apply some penalties, to let us to keep our characters.

What do you guys think about this?

[Granger]

FYI: when you die you can inherit (in the starting room, the grave inside the fence), then you'll spawn on the hearthfire of your dead character and all his claims will be owned by the new you. You can then bury the dead character to get some amount of his knowledge back.

[dunno6988]

FYI: when you die you can inherit (in the starting room, the grave inside the fence), then you'll spawn on the hearthfire of your dead character and all his claims will be owned by the new you. You can then bury the dead character to get some amount of his knowledge back.

But this is the avoid point of making a new character and having the dead one and not many new players are even aware of such feature.

[NotJimmy97]

1: When character dies all of the equipment and inventory is dropped and teleported to their hearth fire.
2: When character dies all LP is reduced to 0 or all XP reduced to 0 or even both and teleported to their hearth fire.
3: When character dies everything is dropped either equipment or inventory, also includes study table and both XP and LP reduced to 0 and teleported to their hearth fire.
4: When character dies everything dropped equipment, inventory and study table, both XP and LP reduced to 0 and all Abilities and Attributes turned back to their starting stats (as if just made the character) and teleported to their hearth fire.

#1 through #3 are not punishing enough to dissuade characters from killing each other. It just means making a crime alt and keeping a larger stock of weapons and armor. Both options are viable to the largest factions, and you'll actually see more killing if permadeath is changed that way.

#4 is effectively the same thing as death, except you get to keep your skills.

[Granger]

This area has beed discussed for quite some extend prior the wipe.

The downside I see with the current mechanics is that we won't ever see something like a rising of the peasants in an attempt to overthrow some oppressors.

Should death not induce a permanent penalty but a temporary one (I suggested some ingame weeks to recover) low level players would at least try some stupid things from time to time (like zerging titans), but as of now they (knowing they woud lose more than the opponent) will never do something like that. Sad.

[Myrgard]

irl historically when peasants went up against knights the casualty rate was some 10 to 1 for each knight slain (if not more) and yet while it was rare it did happen.... and real life death penalties are even harsher


The way I see it is not the permadeath but more rather the fact peasants were a community. Here factions are small communities, while noobs and hermits stand alone not knowing or caring about each other.

[jorb]

The downside I see with the current mechanics is that we won't ever see something like a rising of the peasants in an attempt to overthrow some oppressors.

Should death not induce a permanent penalty but a temporary one (I suggested some ingame weeks to recover) low level players would at least try some stupid things from time to time (like zerging titans), but as of now they (knowing they woud lose more than the opponent) will never do something like that. Sad.

Low level zerging quickly becomes bots and alts zerging.

[jordancoles]

The downside I see with the current mechanics is that we won't ever see something like a rising of the peasants in an attempt to overthrow some oppressors.

Should death not induce a permanent penalty but a temporary one (I suggested some ingame weeks to recover) low level players would at least try some stupid things from time to time (like zerging titans), but as of now they (knowing they woud lose more than the opponent) will never do something like that. Sad.

Low level zerging quickly becomes bots and alts zerging.

In w8 we had a script that would basically just follow the party leader and throw punches and chops at whoever the main leader had agro'd

So, yea

[Granger]

Just because something could be automated doesn't mean that it would not bring more fun to the general player base of implemented. Especially since following the bot argument to the bitter conclusion would lead to discarding the whole game as there isn't a single mechanic that can't be ProgressQuested.

I still havn't heard a good argument that speaks against the view that the current death mechanic neither furthers meaningful player interaction, nor encourages participation in PvP (unless you pilot a throwaway alt or know upfront that you'll win).

[jorb]

Just because something could be automated doesn't mean that it would not bring more fun to the general player base of implemented. Especially since following the bot argument to the bitter conclusion would lead to discarding the whole game as there isn't a single mechanic that can't be ProgressQuested.

There are plenty of degrees in that hell. Even if a lot of tasks can be automated, the task of building characters nevertheless requires some amount of planning, which is at least a significant challenge, requiring effort and maintenance. A healthy amount of character investment is a good deterrent, but both too much and too little invites automation.