Trade Goods Value

[Neon14]

I hope they remove sub tokens asap.

And lose a nice source of income by doing so? You are looking at it from a wrong perspective. They just need to make trading easier. Create barter stands, probably introduce gaming time tokens (1 week, 48 hours and etc.) as coins and etc.

UPD. the OP post. Will make a fuller list of things and prices for them later today.

I don't know, to me he has some point. I could spend 45 dollars on sub tokens and trade them for x amount of goods (it's a lot, if you look through certain trade threads) and all the work to achieve those goods myself is null. At least in previous worlds you could go out and commit some hard work to gathering blueberries or farming pearls in order to trade up to any certain good. Using real money wasn't the standard. It is now, and what will barter stands do on that remark? While I agree they need to maintain their income, pay to win is stupid.

[LadyGoo]

pay to win is stupid.

You do not actually believe that buying some q 100 gear for real money will help you win?
As for barter stands, once they will be implemented I will start buying some items anyone can gather (birch bark, wrought iron, bricks and etc.).

[sabinati]

pay to win is stupid.

You do not actually believe that buying some q 100 gear for real money will help you win?
As for barter stands, once they will be implemented I will start buying some items anyone can gather (birch bark, wrought iron, bricks and etc.).

same

[Neon14]

pay to win is stupid.

You do not actually believe that buying some q 100 gear for real money will help you win?
As for barter stands, once they will be implemented I will start buying some items anyone can gather (birch bark, wrought iron, bricks and etc.).

"Win" maybe not, but get somewhere that would take many weeks otherwise, with 45 dollars? Yeh that's stupid. No different than those shitty facebook games where you can instead buy "gems" or whatever to get to the top way faster than someone playing casually/without spending money.

If I buy q100 armor with real money i'm going to beat a person that didn't buy quality 100 armor nor spend their life getting it. So yes, that's an important advantage.

As well, through that gear and equipment stems almost every aspect of gameplay. It will have a major effect. I.E, Sausage quality from meatgrinder, Anvil/Hammer for swords and any equipment you can name, i'm sure you know how the game works. If this isn't part of "winning" the game, then I don't know what is.

[Avu]

Buy q 100 armor and be king for a day buy q 100 clay and be king forever.

[dchow002]

pay to win is stupid.

You do not actually believe that buying some q 100 gear for real money will help you win?
As for barter stands, once they will be implemented I will start buying some items anyone can gather (birch bark, wrought iron, bricks and etc.).

"Win" maybe not, but get somewhere that would take many weeks otherwise, with 45 dollars? Yeh that's stupid. No different than those shitty facebook games where you can instead buy "gems" or whatever to get to the top way faster than someone playing casually/without spending money.

If I buy q100 armor with real money i'm going to beat a person that didn't buy quality 100 armor nor spend their life getting it. So yes, that's an important advantage.

As well, through that gear and equipment stems almost every aspect of gameplay. It will have a major effect. I.E, Sausage quality from meatgrinder, Anvil/Hammer for swords and any equipment you can name, i'm sure you know how the game works. If this isn't part of "winning" the game, then I don't know what is.

I think it depends on your definition of "win" and what your goal is in game, especially in an open game like haven. It seems like subbing to this game would be "pay to win" by your definition.

You also have to factor in opportunity costs for others. For myself, my work schedule can be hectic (at max I can work 85 hours a week) and have to juggle a newborn. If I can buy a token and trade it for some goods to "speed up" the process so I can enjoy the game and "catch up" to those who have more time to play, I don't really mind.

[Neon14]

I think it depends on your definition of "win" and what your goal is in game, especially in an open game like haven. It seems like subbing to this game would be "pay to win" by your definition.

You also have to factor in opportunity costs for others. For myself, my work schedule can be hectic (at max I can work 85 hours a week) and have to juggle a newborn. If I can buy a token and trade it for some goods to "speed up" the process so I can enjoy the game and "catch up" to those who have more time to play, I don't really mind.

Like I said, every aspect of the game is changeable by things you can buy for real money right now. How is simply subbing considered winning by my definition? Some people can't afford to spend money on this game other than the sub, are they doomed to inevitably be behind? To have leagues of work ahead of them to even be on par with those who can simply buy items will real money? This is a flawed system. People who simply have more time to play likely bought their goods too, as certain goods are only available to certain people. If I am in need of a higher quality kiln, I can either spend hours looking for a proper node that is likely nowhere near the level others have, or buy q100 top notch clay for 15 dollars. Those who play the game often and those who don't, still come to that same choice.

[_Gunnar]

I think it depends on your definition of "win" and what your goal is in game, especially in an open game like haven. It seems like subbing to this game would be "pay to win" by your definition.

You also have to factor in opportunity costs for others. For myself, my work schedule can be hectic (at max I can work 85 hours a week) and have to juggle a newborn. If I can buy a token and trade it for some goods to "speed up" the process so I can enjoy the game and "catch up" to those who have more time to play, I don't really mind.

Like I said, every aspect of the game is changeable by things you can buy for real money right now. How is simply subbing considered winning by my definition? Some people can't afford to spend money on this game other than the sub, are they doomed to inevitably be behind? To have leagues of work ahead of them to even be on par with those who can simply buy items will real money? This is a flawed system. People who simply have more time to play likely bought their goods too, as certain goods are only available to certain people. If I am in need of a higher quality kiln, I can either spend hours looking for a proper node that is likely nowhere near the level others have, or buy q100 top notch clay for 15 dollars. Those who play the game often and those who don't, still come to that same choice.

I think if you look at the people who could be considered "winning", whatever that means in this game, lol, they aren't the ones selling sub tokens.

[dchow002]

I think it depends on your definition of "win" and what your goal is in game, especially in an open game like haven. It seems like subbing to this game would be "pay to win" by your definition.

You also have to factor in opportunity costs for others. For myself, my work schedule can be hectic (at max I can work 85 hours a week) and have to juggle a newborn. If I can buy a token and trade it for some goods to "speed up" the process so I can enjoy the game and "catch up" to those who have more time to play, I don't really mind.

Like I said, every aspect of the game is changeable by things you can buy for real money right now. How is simply subbing considered winning by my definition? Some people can't afford to spend money on this game other than the sub, are they doomed to inevitably be behind? To have leagues of work ahead of them to even be on par with those who can simply buy items will real money? This is a flawed system. People who simply have more time to play likely bought their goods too, as certain goods are only available to certain people. If I am in need of a higher quality kiln, I can either spend hours looking for a proper node that is likely nowhere near the level others have, or buy q100 top notch clay for 15 dollars. Those who play the game often and those who don't, still come to that same choice.

Correct me if I am misinterpreting what you're saying.

Right now, you're saying that you can "win" by either buying subtokens to trade or spend a lot time to acquire them "properly." However, to get this amount of time, requires you to buy a subtoken (in my opinion).

You state that "Some people can't afford to spend money on this game other than the sub, are they doomed to inevitably be behind?" To me, some people can't afford to spend the time for certain activities on this game, are they doomed to fall behind?

I am not sure I 100% agree with "Like I said, every aspect of the game is changeable by things you can buy for real money right now."

If by your definition of "win" is to obtain/craft the highest quality item possible I would saying buying subtokens will not be enough. Quality is going to constantly improve (whether by farming, taking care of animals, exploring finding better nodes). Your subtoken is a onetime leap for what's currently in existence. It will give you a jump to catch up to players, but it's not going to help you "win" the quality game since that is constantly being pushed.

If you're goal is to obtain god gear and kill others, subtokens isn't going to make a dramtic difference. Getting high q armor/weapons is pretty reasonable now even with a moderate clay now because of metal changes. Couple with that fact that 3-4 fresh alts can kill you pretty easily.

To me time has greater value than money in this game. This may sound ludicrous but I personally think the game is play to win and you can buy subtokens to help subsidize the lack of time/interest to find a better node/metal.

[Neon14]

To me, some people can't afford to spend the time for certain activities on this game, are they doomed to fall behind?

Yes, they are. And rightfully so. Why should those who spend the time to get higher quality goods immediately have access to that with real money? Time put in is what you should get out. There's no freebies or shortcuts. And my definition of winning is not just the quality game, though if sub tokens are the method to getting to the quality standard we have right now, what is the point in working for it in the game if you can just buy it? I don't want to be on the same level as someone who plays only an hour a day but pays money. That's ludicrous.

What part of "every aspect being changeable by things you can buy for real money right now" don't you agree with? You're aware that these items being purchased actually have an effect on almost EVERY crafting/crafted item, correct? A q100 kiln affects brick quality, and that affects smelter quality, and that affects metal quality, and that affects tool and weapon quality, and that affects the power/ability you have over other players. Curiosities are heavily affected by this as well. Some of the best curios are metal! Need I explain more? You can purchase high quality seeds with real money. With those seeds you get higher quality plants, higher quality foods, higher quality wood, etc.

Is there any justification to why you might think these things you can purchase with real money DON'T have a major effect on gameplay right now? You can't even purchase goods with anything other than sub tokens. You are quite literally forced to spend money to be at the level of other players, or somehow have gold, which even then has lower value.

Or spend weeks getting there, and by then the qualities will be even higher, and still purchasable with real money.

If you value time in this game more than money, why are you convinced people should be able to spend real money to "subsidize" the time? You HAVE to work hard for these things, if you aren't interested, or too lazy, you should not be able to shortcut your way to the top.