Prelude: World 16.1

[Hingle_McCringle]

Any hermit or any non-faction group being pro-changes for rawhide are basically shooting in their foot, there was a good reason why and how it was implemented initially, but you do you bros.

explain it then

The way I understand Rawhide is that it basically Ruins Horses for use in PVP combat for the person who chooses to PVP on a horse. At the end of the Day being on a horse in the wild is an extreme disadvatage in all outcomes. If you are PVPing on a horse and you come accross someone not a horse, the person you are trying to attack Rawhides you and can escape.... If you are PVPing and on a horse and you meet somsone else on a horse you are evenly matched for the most part as you both have access to Rawhide (For the most part provided you have animal husbandry?).

When you look at this example without Rawhide if you meet someone on a horse with the current mechanics your fucked. However with Rawhide and your on a horse minding your own business and come across a PVPer your fucked. So basically if you use a horse outside of your own village you are really taking your life into you own hands..... but then again without rawhide your fucked without a horse.

I think with additon of the thicket maybe Rawhide could be limited as you now have more ways to escape a horse by running through the thicket.

In Summery Rawhide was made to protect those without access to a horse..... but maybe its the wrong way to go about protecting

[DDDsDD999]

Any hermit or any non-faction group being pro-changes for rawhide are basically shooting in their foot, there was a good reason why and how it was implemented initially, but you do you bros.

explain it then

Imagine walking along and seeing 2 people. They chase you, you run away from them.

Scenario A, one side has horses: The side that has the horses wins the chase. Hermits are not known for being well-prepared.

Scenario B, both have horses: The side with better horses wins the chase. Hermits will not have the better horses.

Scenario C, neither have horses: As long as you pick up speedbuffs, click critters, and don't turn off your monitor, they cannot touch you. This is the one the hermit can possibly win, with practice and knowledge.

[Hingle_McCringle]

I guess we have beaten the "reason why removing rawhide completely is a bad idea for non pvpers......" like a dead horse.

[Audiosmurf]

Remove rawhide AND make it so you can't fight on a horse. Horses for transport only. All problems solved.

edit: actually make it so you can only use spears on horseback and see what happens

[Hingle_McCringle]

The vistor gates change I think is very ill advised unless as a minimum players under NPC aggro can flee through a gate covered by a claim they have trespassing on. At least let us have a chance at surviving the run in with cave baddies and moose? There enough stupid ways to die in the game.....

When it comes to pvp escape, what are the statistics that say its more dangerous for a noob who dont understand the differences vs those who know? Never going to get that data so I guess try it and see how fast server pop dies or see that the reaction is like on the forums?


I understand pvp will always be a part of this game. Violence is the last stage of conflict resolution but would be nice to have a bit more at the player bases disposal against those that go straight to violence for every situation.

[magnet]

I guess we have beaten the "reason why removing rawhide completely is a bad idea for non pvpers......" like a dead horse.

I agree it shouldn't be removed completely, but the range is absurd

Scenario D, I'm outside on a horse, get zapped by Rawhide from off-screen bc my opponent has a client with auto-Rawhide, I get stunned on the horse until he closes most of the distance, then has an easy time catching up to me.

[Barbamaus]

PvPers have no clue what the game is like for everyone else. They can't even agree on if horses would make it impossible to catch anyone or if it would screw hermits even more.

Let's stop pretending a casual player or even most non-pvpers stand a chance running away. They don't have the skills, the gear/water, the people ready to jump in to pick them up with a snekkja or join the fight, or clients that removes 90% of the graphics to give you an edge in chases.
The average joe will be caught off guard, likely to panic while thinking he's about to lose his character -or at least all of their gear (since even if it's worthless to the attacker, it will still be taken or dumped).

If boosting horses by removing rawhide (or making it a fear-like effect) gives them a chance to run away, it's worth it. Even if it will make it harder for pvpers to catch other pvpers.
In the end, if you really want to pvp, nobody is stopping you from setting up a fight and meet up for it.

[Halbertz]

From "remove pvp" to "remove rawhide". Is this a progress or opposite of it?
Every scenario already explained in the post above: nothing will change for whiny noobs who refuse to learn how to click buttons.

[SnuggleSnail]

Scenario D, I'm outside on a horse, get zapped by Rawhide from off-screen bc my opponent has a client with auto-Rawhide, I get stunned on the horse until he closes most of the distance, then has an easy time catching up to me.

sry I forgor all of you people were old and bad at social media. the guy I said that to was using chatgpt to write his messages so I did the same

Raw hide's range does not go off screen, its range being short is actually a big part of why it's severely underpowered. IMO, it's kindof ugly to complain about mechanics you don't understand in cases where 5 minutes of fucking around with them would be enough to understand them. It's kindof selfish, imo

I also don't think raw hide being changed would be a poggers champion hype new world change

[Mr_Bober]

I have a proposal for an experiment.

THE GOAL
Make siege a real option against those more likely to be able to defend against it, without screwing over hermits.

THE IDEA
Trade your base's safety for the ability to actually kill someone.

HOW?
In order to achieve these, a few things need to fit in the right place.
Step 1
A character with Rage but without Murder should not be able to kill you (with 1 exception); instead you should always drop to 1HHP, even taking into account the concussion.
THE EXCEPTION: If you already have only 1HHP when combat begins, getting KOed kills you. This exception is necessary to allow people with Rage to get rid of griefing alts blocking their gates (or similar behaviour). Alt gets KOed once, is at 1HHP. If he doesn't return to base, but rather stays there, the second KO will kill it.

Step 2
Boost Murder.
The boost is an incentive to get Murder if you're into PvP, despite the added risks.
What boost exactly? I don't know. I'm sure there's plenty of people better suited than me to suggest what would make it "worth it".

Step 3
Stench of Murder makes it easier to siege any claim in which the perpetrator's HF stands.
Easier how?
- It allows anyone holding the scent to hand-bash palisades on the same claim (or vclaim) as the perpetrator's HF.
- It allows to speed up the drying process of siege engines (still required for brick walls) within a short distance of such claim.

To avoid griefing, a few more changes would be required (and I'm sure some of you can think of more):
A. HF can't ever be built in any claim (vclaim or pclaim) you don't have permissions in (assuming right now you can with Vandalism[?]).
B. Until your Stench of Murder decays, you aren't allowed to move your HF.
C. Palisades should always be hand-bashable if they are not on a claim (are they already?).

While I'm sure this idea needs some refining, I think the concept is worth exploring.